Starting Out Logging...

[TheLumberJack]

Depends on your area. "logging" around here doesnt really exist in the traditional sense. woods are cut down when they want to build a subdivision or mall. Then either you hopefully hear about this happening, or you advertise and hope the developer calls you to do the land clearing. Depending on the timber and lot, youe ither pay to do it (if there are lots of good oaks) or they pay you so much to clear it. Then you take the logs to the mill and get paid. Around here log prices are THROUGH THE ROOF. Not many housing projects, etc going on right now with the economy not much land being cleared=high prices. Around here we really dont have forests that get cut and replanted for timber use.

I guess this may be a whole different topic, but land clearing is something I've done twice...both jobs about 1 acre for residential builds. It was good work and work I'd like to get more.
Maybe i should post in the business section, but how do you seek these types of jobs out? Waiting and hoping to hear about them just doesn't really work. I guess the best step would be networking and making connections with builders.
Even though the economy is hurting the building biz, in my area atleast, there is a lot of building happening. Wexford, for those who don't know, is an upscale suburb of Pittsburgh...lots of money...Roethlisberger and half of the rest of the pro athletes in the city live within a mile of me. I actually did a little pruning job for Polamalu...super quiet guy but it was cool cashing his check!

 

[sILlogger]

Depends on your area. "logging" around here doesnt really exist in the traditional sense. woods are cut down when they want to build a subdivision or mall. Then either you hopefully hear about this happening, or you advertise and hope the developer calls you to do the land clearing. Depending on the timber and lot, youe ither pay to do it (if there are lots of good oaks) or they pay you so much to clear it. Then you take the logs to the mill and get paid. Around here log prices are THROUGH THE ROOF. Not many housing projects, etc going on right now with the economy not much land being cleared=high prices. Around here we really dont have forests that get cut and replanted for timber use.

you in Illinois? if so what part?

 

[thejdman04]

I live about 20 minutes east of rockford IL. Im in the very northern part of il, in 10 minutes I can be in WI If you are insured, I would just call builders, and/or get an ad in the yellow pages. If you dont have a business license or ins, I wouldnt advertise much, go under the radar if possible.

 

[sILlogger]

I cut timber in the carbondale area, 300 miles south of you (50 miles from the southern tip of the state)

 

[Cletuspsc]

Honestly??? Go back to school, get a degree in forestry.

I used to be gainfully employed.

Now I am self employed...own my own mill and log too.

Go back to school.

What are you interested in??? What do you want to do and how do you plan to do it??? Decide this while going to school.

Not impossible to get into, just hard to make a go of it.

:agree2: X 10

Not a good time at all

But if you really wanna get into it find some work with an established company and work for them for a few years till you learn all the little tricks and get your name out there and build some connections with buyers and mills in your area. i have found that the more people you know the better off youll be.

 

[Femur Breaker]

Whats your degree in?

And you are wise to, as you are trying to do, learn before you leap. Explore the entire industry.....Logging may be on a slump, but the wood industry always thrives. Study, find your niche.....you seem very interested correct? If you are hardworking, have knowledge in buisness and can handle failure as well as success, then you have no reason to be anything but optimistic....I think the best thing you can do is to keep researching and get yourself out there in the field as much as you can.

 

[hammerlogging]

Get a job with a logger. You'll learn tons.

There's nothing like it, logging. Try it.

May be hard to find a job right now though. Don't know unless you try.

Hey SIL dude- carbondale eh? I hear southern IL is more like KY than IL, even sympathized with the agrarian nation of the CSA. My mom grew up in cental IL, I've been around that state a bit.

 

[sILlogger]

Get a job with a logger. You'll learn tons.

There's nothing like it, logging. Try it.

May be hard to find a job right now though. Don't know unless you try.

Hey SIL dude- carbondale eh? I hear southern IL is more like KY than IL, even sympathized with the agrarian nation of the CSA. My mom grew up in cental IL, I've been around that state a bit.

ha ha...the last 60 miles of the southern end of the state is completely different than the rest. it is pretty flat until you get down here. definitely more like kentucky in landscape as opposed to the rest of the state.

but we also have Chicago in this state.....uggghh...

 

[TheLumberJack]

my bachelor's is in business administration....glad to have it but don't enjoy sitting at a computer 40 hours a week...tried it for a couple years..pay was average and life/work balance was horid.

anyway..i'll try to hook up with a logger in my region but i truely have no clue how to go about doing that....like i said before, it's not really a sunday paper classified...i'll try good ole google

 

[STLfirewood]

I have picked up a few small logging jobs. Being a one man show with a helper here and there keeps expenses down. I target he small tracks that most loggers don't want to touch. If make it a lot easier when using a skid steer to log with. I cut the grade white oak and take it to the bolt mill($1 a board foot). I cut the tie logs and take them to a different mill ($260 a thousand). I cut the rest into saw logs and take it home. I split 60/40 to me on the grade and 70/30 on the rest. I base the 70/30 split on $150 a thousand. That covers everything that's not grade. Landowner is getting $45 a thousand on everything that is not grade down to 8" on the small end at 8'8". Smaller then 8" I take but pay $30 a thousand. I take all the saw logs home and process them into firewood. Firewood brings $300-$350 a cord delivered and stacked. There is also a guy that buys firewood around here for $180 a cord dumped. He buys 300-400 cords a year. I sell my extra to him just to keep some cash flowing. I try and pick these small jobs up between tree jobs. Tree jobs pay better. I use these jobs as time fillers.

Scott

 

[Zodiac45]

As most of the people have suggested, this is maybe the worst time in quite a while too get into the business. What SlowP mentioned is what usually happens especially too a newcomer trying too break into the bizz.

That said, I would suggest you hire on with a competent crew and get some experience hands on and from the ground up. From there, you'll experience and learn, or see opportunities too do things differently.
Our business depends upon the ability too too maximize a given situation. By maximize, I mean the planning of the site from day one till it's finished. Where is the best landing? How much and where do I build roads and surfaces that optimize productivity. In today's logging where machines are used heavily, it's all about time on that Hobbs meter! Safety for the crew and how many truckloads can I get too mill on a daily basis is what it's all about. It's not rocket science but I can tell you, the difference between an experienced and clever "Bossman" can make a world of difference in everyone on the crew's performance. It also can (usually always) spell the difference between making or losing money on the job.
Margins can be quite thin and it doesn't take many "screwups" too turn the tide. So,..... site planning, what and how many machines and crew too work it and the "know how" to fix-up a competitive bid (and make it happen within that budget) really makes all the difference.

Whatever you decide, Best of Luck too you and ask away of specifics that come up.

 

[TheLumberJack]

Whatever you decide, Best of Luck too you and ask away of specifics that come up.

thanks!
i think i'll stick to what i know for a bit.

where in Maine? i have relatives in Camden and worked in Kittery briefly.

 

[Zodiac45]

thanks!
i think i'll stick to what i know for a bit.

where in Maine? i have relatives in Camden and worked in Kittery briefly.

Camden's a nice town. Kittery too. I'm up about an hour or so North East of Bar Harbor on the coast.

 

[deeker]

Win a lottery jackpot, then buy the equipment, and go broke.

Some guys here started out successfully buying small roadside salvage sales, but they aren't logging now. The log market is still on a downward trip. I saw the figures today.

Buying a timber sale? Well, you need to have money up front for a deposit. For federal timber, you need a bid deposit before you can bid, in cash, and then if you get the sale, you must pay or provide bonding for 25% of the value of that sale. Then you have to pay in advance for what you are going to log, and a performance bond for the standing timber.

Should you decide not to log the sale you bought, you are liable for damages--the sale is resold and if the bid is lower than your bid, you pay the difference.
You are also liable for the clean up work that isn't done.
I don't know about Pennsylvania sales, only sales on federal ground.
Learn how from somebody who knows how. And now is not a good time. There are some small sales sold elsewhere. There are also Stewardship sales in which you would do "restoration" work in exchange for the timber. But those still require an initial outlay of deposits.

Bidding can be ferocious when the market is good. Often, in oral auctions, an established mill will "make the newcomer pay" and bid them up only to leave them with a very high priced sale.

Equipment is going cheaply at the auction, and there's a reason for that. Workman's comp insurance is not going down.

My job--I'm a cheaply educated forester, seems pretty darn good right now. And here's something else to think about. During the 1980s the loggers made more salary than we did. Their wages stagnated, ours didn't and we now get paid more. I'm talking crew wages.

Where were you when I started??? Sinking....slowly..

You have brought up many points that often go unsaid.

Great post.

Kevin

 

[lfnh]

Win a lottery jackpot, then buy the equipment, and go broke.

Some guys here started out successfully buying small roadside salvage sales, but they aren't logging now. The log market is still on a downward trip. I saw the figures today.

Buying a timber sale? Well, you need to have money up front for a deposit. For federal timber, you need a bid deposit before you can bid, in cash, and then if you get the sale, you must pay or provide bonding for 25% of the value of that sale. Then you have to pay in advance for what you are going to log, and a performance bond for the standing timber.

Should you decide not to log the sale you bought, you are liable for damages--the sale is resold and if the bid is lower than your bid, you pay the difference.
You are also liable for the clean up work that isn't done.
I don't know about Pennsylvania sales, only sales on federal ground.
Learn how from somebody who knows how. And now is not a good time. There are some small sales sold elsewhere. There are also Stewardship sales in which you would do "restoration" work in exchange for the timber. But those still require an initial outlay of deposits.

Bidding can be ferocious when the market is good. Often, in oral auctions, an established mill will "make the newcomer pay" and bid them up only to leave them with a very high priced sale.

Equipment is going cheaply at the auction, and there's a reason for that. Workman's comp insurance is not going down.

My job--I'm a cheaply educated forester, seems pretty darn good right now. And here's something else to think about. During the 1980s the loggers made more salary than we did. Their wages stagnated, ours didn't and we now get paid more. I'm talking crew wages.

Stewardship program looked promising. Some recent contract awards were halfway decent dollar amounts. But current bonding regs hurt smaller companies, even though Stewardship program had a goal of employing local people and businesses in hard hit regions. Just seems that relaxing the bonding requirements would help in these times, but don't see much progress on the bonding issue lately.
Never got rich thinning juniper, but brought in enough to get along ok.

 

[bullbuck]

not sure but?

I have tons of tree work experience, but not an inch of logging experience or knowledge. Anyone willing to chip in and share some tips as to how to get into this business?

Thanks

Kind of just the process???

cut trees>take to mill>get paid ????

if you think you want to log i would reccomend getting a production felling job,when having to produce large amounts of wood for average pay, day in day out will let you know if you have wood chips in your veins fairly quick!

 

[mercer_me]

Don't get into logging your one bad break down from filing chapter 11 if you don't own your equipment. But even if you do own your equipment it's not a good time to het into logging.

 

[TheLumberJack]

ya i've pretty much given up on the thought...atleast for the near future