Stihl 045 points style ignition timing

[swamper8]

I have a Stihl 045 chain saw. It was my grandfathers, I stripped it down to the crank and replaced seals/head/piston/rings etc. The saw had spark when I disassembled it. I bought new points/coil/condenser. I now can’t get any sort of spark from it. There seems to be two major adjustments, points gap (not sure value) and the whole base plate clocks about 5 degrees.
Does anyone have a detailed timing setup/troubleshooting guide for this saw?
Had I known these saws were so sensitive to ignition setup I would have paid closer attention when I disassembled it. I tested the new condenser and it’s fine. I’ve had both the new and old coil installed and still no spark. I’ve clocked the assembly to each extreme position and center/neutral, still no spark. Any help is appreciated!

 

[Woodslasher]

 

[cbfarmall]

Did you clean the new points and make sure you had continuity before installing? Sometimes they have a protective coating. Make sure the kill switch wire isn't grounded somewhere along its path. Try reinstalling the old condenser--new ones can be bad from get-go. Don't get too hung up on the timing aspect yet. That won't affect achieving spark; just set it where it was before disassembly or in the middle.

 

[swamper8]

Thank you for the posts. I don't suppose the entire service manual is online somewhere? i'd even be willing to buy it to have it.
I did put my meter on both sides of the points and rotated the crank, they are making/breaking electrically so that rules out any coating. I tested the Cap, but for the sake of being thorough I'll put all of the old parts back. points/coil/condenser and see what happens. If I get spark I'll swap each part one by one. I appreciate the input!

 

[hotshot]

Welcome aboard.

You can likely get that service manual copy from Mr Ray Benson in the “The beg for manuals thread” section at the top of the Chainsaw page. There also old 045/056 technical bulletins available too, if you’re interested in the revision history.

What values did you get for the old & new capacitors?

What values did you get for the old & new coils’ primary & secondary winding ohms?

 

[swamper8]

Welcome aboard.

You can likely get that service manual copy from Mr Ray Benson in the “The beg for manuals thread” section at the top of the Chainsaw page. There also old 045/056 technical bulletins available too, if you’re interested in the revision history.

What values did you get for the old & new capacitors?

What values did you get for the old & new coils’ primary & secondary winding ohms?

For the capacitors, I just set my meter to 50M and watch the capacitor charge. The value rose slowly from zero both equally. That may not be the best way but the only way I know.

For the coils it's a bit disappointing:.
Old Coil:
Flying lead to armature: ~3.3 ohms
Spark plug center to armature: 3.5Mohms

New Coil:
Flying lead to armature: ~2.2 ohms
Spark plug center to armature: 4.8Kohms


3.5M seems high but that was the coil that was actually working....or at least producing a spark. The saw only had about 85-90PSI compression and from what I could tell 140-150 is ideal...hence the rebuild. I just couldn't get it to start before. It had spark/new plug but even with a shot of ether it wouldn't even kick off for a second.

I should mention though that I put a little heat to the flywheel to get it off and that melted the casing of the coil a bit. also the cover for the points/cap. soooo.....I may have damaged the original coil doing that. Unfortunately....

 

[hotshot]

Yep, the new coil is good & old coil is shot.

Capacitors are indeterminate, as need a cap tester to see if they’re about 0.2 microfarads.

Those 045 points saws throw lightning bolts when set up correctly.

 

[swamper8]

Does anyone see something blantently wrong in these photos? Is there supposed to be insulating pads between the coil and case? I have my spark plug grounded to the head. I’ve checked for continuity between the case and plug threads so I know it’s grounded properly. I’ve also rang out between the center plug electrode and case. 4.5kohm is the reading. My points are opening and closing

Did you clean the new points and make sure you had continuity before installing? Sometimes they have a protective coating. Make sure the kill switch wire isn't grounded somewhere along its path. Try reinstalling the old condenser--new ones can be bad from get-go. Don't get too hung up on the timing aspect yet. That won't affect achieving spark; just set it where it was before disassembly or in the middle.

so this wound up being right. I HAD my meter across the points while spinning the saw up with a drill and I was seeing the meter fluctuate. However when I spun the saw by hand (super slow) the points were not dropping to a complete short. I ran some 1000 grit between the points a half dozen times and now I have spark. One small step forward!

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

Does anyone see something blantently wrong in these photos? Is there supposed to be insulating pads between the coil and case? I have my spark plug grounded to the head. I’ve checked for continuity between the case and plug threads so I know it’s grounded properly. I’ve also rang out between the center plug electrode and case. 4.5kohm is the reading. My points are opening and closing

so this wound up being right. I HAD my meter across the points while spinning the saw up with a drill and I was seeing the meter fluctuate. However when I spun the saw by hand (super slow) the points were not dropping to a complete short. I ran some 1000 grit between the points a half dozen times and now I have spark. One small step forward!

I was going to suggest sanding too, but I see you tried it.

 

[stihltech]

Should be a timing mark on the case and the flywheel. Use a powered test light between ground and the switch wire. Light should dim just as marks line up. Gap and clean points first, then time by turning the plate the coil is attached to.

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

Funny thing, stihltech, I picked up a timing light at a Goodwill type store with a tool box of assorted stuff for next to nothing
Today's kids would have 0 clue on what it does.