Dennisthemenace
ArboristSite Operative
2 1/2 days after starting an oil thread and only 18 posts? Very disappointing!
Stihl HP Ultra 40:1
- Thread starter Vintage Engine Repairs
- Start date
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Well so many have been started recently were all just fricken sick of them at this point.
Well, just a side note.
I have a good friend that I talk to on 75 meters most every day. That's ham radio for those that don't know the difference from CB.
He is a logger, not big time, but about 10 loads a week. Current job estimated 300,000 board feet. Next about 200,000. NC mountains.
He likes 390XP's and has at least one 500I. I asked him what oil he uses and he said he used Itaska until the convenience stores don't seem to keep it. Been using HP Ultra lately.
He uses them rather than babbling on a forum.
Me, I just work on them every day.
I have never seen that whatever oil can you sleep with has much to do with it as long as you use it.
Guys who really use saws will have something else crap out before the piston and jug unless they straight gas it.
I promise.
I have a good friend that I talk to on 75 meters most every day. That's ham radio for those that don't know the difference from CB.
He is a logger, not big time, but about 10 loads a week. Current job estimated 300,000 board feet. Next about 200,000. NC mountains.
He likes 390XP's and has at least one 500I. I asked him what oil he uses and he said he used Itaska until the convenience stores don't seem to keep it. Been using HP Ultra lately.
He uses them rather than babbling on a forum.
Me, I just work on them every day.
I have never seen that whatever oil can you sleep with has much to do with it as long as you use it.
Guys who really use saws will have something else crap out before the piston and jug unless they straight gas it.
I promise.
I’ve been running all of my saws, other 2 cycle trimmer and leaf blowers on it at 32:1 with no issue. Mufflers are clean, plugs are beautiful.
Good to hear.
Dennisthemenace
ArboristSite Operative
There are a couple of Aussies I'm really hoping will chime in and get this thread going, you know who you are lol
After a few tanks of Ultra at 50:1 looks good I reckon no gummed up rings 
I rebuilt a Stihl FS90R yesterday morning. One of the valve keepers or whatever you call it had broke and dropped a valve. Didn't ruin the piston luckily. Needed a cam cause the metal piece on the back had separated.
It had enough carbon on the top of the piston that it had indentions on the piston and the top of the cylinder.
No idea what oil he was using. Cleaned up and ran fine.
It had enough carbon on the top of the piston that it had indentions on the piston and the top of the cylinder.
No idea what oil he was using. Cleaned up and ran fine.
I think carbon on the valves has been an issue and the plastic cams wearing. Both supposedly are preventable with a good oil. I really like the torque so long term I will keep it and use it as my test case.
I have seen the cams worn almost round. Amazing that they would run that long. This one really was not so worn, just the metal separated. May have still worked OK, not sure. I have seen carbon build up on the valve stem keep the valves from closing and gotten a couple of free BR700's that way.
The FS's are a lot easier to work on than the BR's. They both work the same way, just the BR cam cover is on the fan side or "front". And, the FS is on the starter side.
I know the BR700's with valve stem cake were running Optimix. Not sure that it matters.
I think they all leave deposits .
You can’t possibly be unhappy with that, stop complaining - you got a number of tanks!
KostasVolos
ArboristSite Operative
Stihl HP Ultra is a veg oil ( based on coconut oil ,if I remember correctly ) and also of the ash-less kind ( no anti-wear and anti-friction additives ) and being a JASO FB rated oil it also lacks the
detergent additives .
It's technically impossible for this particular 2T oil to retain the combustion chamber ,the piston and the muffler clean .No matter if the purest and cleanest kind of gasoline is used.Period .
There 's no way a vegetable based oil ( whether being from castor beans or coconuts ,or whatever else ) to burn clean
( meaning leaving no carbon deposits ) .
Mineral and semi-synthetic mix oils do burn cleaner than veg oils.Lots cleaner .
Far less carbon deposits.
Synthetics ,even more.
Almost none carbon deposits.
....It's green ! Like any snake oil of the premium class oughts to be .Serpent green .
If Stihl was honest and proud about their HP Ultra,then it would have been orange colored! Yeap!
A deep and vivid orange .
But no ,sir...
A creepy green ,like swamp water.
Buying a creepy green colored product from Stihl is a no-no for those "who know better".
Green is bad .Orange is good .
So simple. Period.
( No orange oil? Who cares...
There are plenty of red and blue ones ...Far better than any green or orange ! ;-)
detergent additives .
It's technically impossible for this particular 2T oil to retain the combustion chamber ,the piston and the muffler clean .No matter if the purest and cleanest kind of gasoline is used.Period .
There 's no way a vegetable based oil ( whether being from castor beans or coconuts ,or whatever else ) to burn clean
( meaning leaving no carbon deposits ) .
Mineral and semi-synthetic mix oils do burn cleaner than veg oils.Lots cleaner .
Far less carbon deposits.
Synthetics ,even more.
Almost none carbon deposits.
....It's green ! Like any snake oil of the premium class oughts to be .Serpent green .
If Stihl was honest and proud about their HP Ultra,then it would have been orange colored! Yeap!
A deep and vivid orange .
But no ,sir...
A creepy green ,like swamp water.
Buying a creepy green colored product from Stihl is a no-no for those "who know better".
Green is bad .Orange is good .
So simple. Period.
( No orange oil? Who cares...
There are plenty of red and blue ones ...Far better than any green or orange ! ;-)
Raw-water cooled? Might want to check your exhaust manifolds and risers. Looks like you might have some seawater gettin in.
PB and PIB are the same thing for all intents and purposes. As is noted on the MSDS files you posted both have the same CAS number.
Almost all FC/FD uses PB/PIB.
PB/PIB is used because it provides phenomenal film strength, yet burns very cleanly. Something that the alternatives like bright stock can't do.
I am also not certain there was any change in formulation between the two msds you posted. The physical properties are the same at a quick glance.
Ultra is a ester based oils. Ester based oils are made by reacting a "fat" with an acid. The fat may very well be coconut oil, but the resulting base oil isn't coconut oil in any way shape or form.
Ultra is dirty because for two reasons. It's ashless and as a result doesn't use any detergent additives. The dispersent additives it does use don't function well or at all in air cooled motors once you pass their temp threshold, which IIRC is around 200 degrees C. And lastly, the base oils used in ashless oils are heavier and as such don't burn that clean.
I don't think it has as much to do with the gasoline quality as it does the carb tuning and loading. If you run a motor on Ultra rich enough IE cool enough it doesn't work great, but it also doesn't carbon up pistons terribly.
Blowers also don't see the loads chainsaws do and not by a small margin.
The 4mix engine is a bastardized design that combines the worst traits of a 2 cycle with the worst traits of a 4 cycle. They all have issues if they are ran enough.
The Redmax/Husqvarna Strato charged blowers and trimmers have just as much torque and run just as clean with much better reliability.
When I was logging I knew of another logger with a pretty decent sized outfit that ran Walmart TCW3 boat oil in everything. Most of his saws lasted an exceptable amount of time, but more than a few didn't.
It's not like the saw implodes if you run crappy oil or the wrong type of oil. It's a gradual thing over time.
As it pertains to Ultra. I see zero good reason to run it in a chainsaw when much better and cheaper alternatives are out there.
KostasVolos
ArboristSite Operative
This ^ .
Maybe the outrageously expensive* JASO FB full synthetic mix oils have their place somewhere,but for sure ain't chainsaws .
* Stihl HP Ultra current price
here is 35€ ( ! ) per liter ( a bit more than a US quart ).
While the Castrol Power 1 Racing
(EU product ) costs 12€ per liter . Amsoil Saber ( imported from the US ), Ipone( imported from Japan ) and Husqvarna XP+ all cost about 20€ per liter.
Actually a quart has slightly more volume than a liter, which makes it worse.
