Stirring the Cannabis or Pot?

[BigJohn]

Is it against ANSI to cut above one's head or shoulders? Or is this just something the manufaturer advises not to do? And if it is then that is going against ANSI.

I know Tom can help us out here.

 

[Guy Meilleur]

I pulled out my copy of Z133.1 and saw nothing under 7.2 or 9.5 about using saw above head. Every time I've bought a topping saw I see that warning in the manual and say yeah right, good idea but sometimes there's no choice.

So yeah the mfr advises it, but that does not go against ANSI but beyond it, no harm in that.

John, the ANSI books are only $15., so unless your budget is shot from recreational expenditures like the title of your thread, you may want to buy your own copies

Neat little tidbits in there like 7.2.4, "chain brake shall be used on saws SO EQUIPPED". and notching stuff that may be passe'.

 

[wct4life]

Not positive on this but, I think that it depends on the saw. I use top handles above my head while in a bucket. Though I wouldn't want to use a larger saw like that. On the same thought, I use top handles one handed sometimes. Any rules about that that I should know?

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Yes it's wrong unless employer shows that 2 hands would be less safe. Oddly, the exception shouldn't apply to saws <15 lb.

If you really want to know for sure, buy your own copy instead of trusting some idiot on a forum

 

[wct4life]

Hey guy, there's nothing in the ANSI Z133.1 that i can find about two or one handed saw use. 7.2.1 tells you to follow saw instructions and safety guidelines. That's it.

 

[wct4life]

The reason why I wonder is because first, isn't that what a tophandle is made for? Second, am I the only one here that holds a branch and cuts at the same time? Third, the guys I work with told me a story about a safety guy, either from OSHA or Insurance, who went to one of the jobs to see their work habits. He wrote that one-handed use was a no-no. Then my guys got into it w/ him about it. After much debate, he gave, stating there were times when single handed use was tolerated.
For the most part I'm just curious what the legal aspects of this is.:blob4:

 

[matthias]

Doing utilty work over the primaries (single or three phase) I have one handed the 020 whilst hanging onto the branch in order to toss it to a safe zone. I switched to using a trimsaw most of the time where you can kibble branches small enough so they trickle past/thru the lines but for larger diameter wood it's hard not to use the hold and cut technique.

 

[BigJohn]

I never tried that stuff I just like to play with the words and get your attention. So I guess that if the manufacture advises against it then it is a no no. ANSI does say to follow the manufatures rules. I have a copy at work that is a little old I guess the safety guy needs get on the and stop listening to me gripe about haveing a saw that wont run just kidding.


I am all for the one handed upsidedown palming the gas tank cuts. Roach will tell ya he doesn't know how I contourt my arms to hold a saw the way I do but I get the job done clean and with some precision if I can keep it runnin.

I was just asked earlier today about the ANSI and I had no idea and the book itself was no help. I just thought that one of all your brainiacks here would know the answer I was looking for.

 

[kowens]

if you don't trust yourself , and have to depend on ansi to guide you , or you have to read saw instructions , you need to find something else to do.

 

[BigJohn]

I remember working for a company who had the one hand rule. The day I tried to use two hands I endend up cutting my index finger on my left hand down the bone it turned green and looked like it was dead for a few weeks but it came back.

I was trying to cut a branch really quick with two hands then after I finished the cut grab it. The saw doesn't wind down quick enough and I was just learning this new "two handed" method.

I went back told the regional manager that this was just a minor step backwards you just have to accept that there is a learning curve here. He never questioned my one handed saw use again.

 

[kowens]

the only rules i follow in the tree are my own

 

[MasterBlaster]

Originally posted by kowens
the only rules i follow in the tree are my own

A different mindset, to say the least.

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Read farther, 7.2.7 clearly modifies 7.2.1--mfr's rules are not sacrosanct.

"if you don't trust yourself , and have to depend on ansi to guide you , or you have to read saw instructions , you need to find something else to do.

Well k.o., I think you can trust yourself AND take advantage of the knowledge of the people who build the saws and the people who serve on ANSI. In the end You can ignore everybody else but yourself, but why not give them a listen?

 

[murphy4trees]

I don't hold a highly experienced climber to the letter of the "law" with ANSI.... yet think about it... everyone has to start somewhere... So its nice to say to a new climber in training... here are the rules... No one handing the saw... two tie-ins while running the saw... visually check all attachments etc..

I didn't liked the locking snaps when they came out... or chainbrakes etc... I guess I just take a while to accept a new style... call me nostalgic..... Yet the more I work with it, the more I like the two hand rule.... Keeping a good sharp handsaw will most definitely reduce the need to one hand.. and using light lowering lines to rigg the small stuff is often easier on the landscape as well as safer....

And on a very practical level, we all have to live with the two hand rule because there have historically been a bunch of untrained people hurting themselves by one handing saws... I only partially agrree with Rocky... the two hand rule was made in response to injury data...

 

[MasterBlaster]

I two-hand my saw to save wear and tear on my rotator cuffs.

I ain't a spring chicken no more...

 

[arboromega]

when you are way out on a limb or in another situation that requires optimum balance you may want to one hand a saw just to use your other arm for stability. in that case if it keeps you from falling i would say it is safer. two hands are better but the one hand use does have its place and applications and it is foolish to pretend otherwise.
as for over your head cutting...just think of that chain coming off and sliding over your face, rope ,throat or other things you might consider important...

 

[kowens]

Well k.o., I think you can trust yourself AND take advantage of the knowledge of the people who build the saws and the people who serve on ANSI. In the end You can ignore everybody else but yourself, but why not give them a listen?



Guy I'm not saying that I don' listen, in fact I have learned a lot here.
99.9% of the jobs I do are removals, years ago we were able to find good ground help that were willing to learn; now every month we have a different crew, so after a broken rib and broken ankle from groundman not listening, now I take a wrap up in the tree with me and I cut with one hand and lower with the other.
In the last 10 years we have been using cranes on at least 50% of our removals, we used to be able to get the same crane and opr,now with the building boom here they would rather set trusses all day who can blame them? We finally started using a large crane outfit and they have 2 opr that they send for tree removals and we use nothing less then a 40 ton
Last nov 2nd in virgina I was taking the top out of a large popular with a crane same opr. We took to virgina with us in sep.i did the same thing that I was doins 15 to 20 times a day made my face cut aiming at crane, made my back cut the top came loose but for some reason the opr took the top back over me I heard the cranes rpms rev and knew something was wrong, I was strapped into the spar and had nowhere to go the top got entangled in another tree when he tried to pull it out it flipped horz and broke out, the whole time this going on I'm yelling trying to stop him when I see the peace start to brake I try to become one with the spar it didn't work some branches ripped me away from spar and bent me backwards I was very lucky , and that’s my point I don’t want luck to have anything to do with it , and that’s how I found this site I came here to learn, plus am doing something I haven’t done sence leaveing school 30 years ago (writeing) please bare with me

Thanks
ken

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Ken, no problem, it's good to hear your experiences, especially the scary ones.

"I take a wrap up in the tree with me and I cut with one hand and lower with the other."

I self=rope a lot too to avoid miscommunication. But there are ways to take wraps and tie off a rope while in the tree that avoid the need for one-handing. If I had to cut and lower all at the same time I'd be scared of something bad happening.


I've used up all 9 lives; can't afford unnecessary chances.

O and the ANSI guides are cheap and worth a look. You can learn more from others there even more than here.

 

[OutOnaLimb]

No matter what the book says, if you climb trees for a living there are going to be times when you will have to one hand a saw. I make it common practice to cut a foot long chunk while holding it in one hand and cuttin with the other. The same goes for the tips of some branches. I can cut small pieces and throw them or direct them into the DZ using this method. I however would raise holy if I saw my Junior climber doing this. Its all a matter of experience and compentence.

Kenn:Monkey:

 

[arboromega]

that crane story sounded pretty crazy there kowens. where in va were you? williamsburg? for those of you not able to make it here for our storm clean up we had poplar trees over like a spilled box of matches. glad you came out of it ok. guy is correct though about tieng off that lowerline when self roping. lets you put your saw away at least before you lower. hard to find a good ground man