storing chain saw fuel washout?

[pioneerguy600]

 

[7sleeper]

Back to topic!

There are a few other problems NOT mentioned sofar. Proper storage containers are a must! And as far as I understood "plastic like deposits" come exactly from that! If I remember correctly Lakeside had some quite impressive pics about this topic of disolving old storage generic plastic containers. Just a week ago I met a old timmer who has "always used the old detergent bottle for his mix".
So fuel storage container should be out of a fuel resistant plastic. There are only very few that tolerate fuel and HDPE is one of them.
Further the mythe about "air moisture" getting into a correctly closed fuel storage container out of HDPE is simply stupid. HDPE is from it's molecular properties practically impermeable for water! As soon as the "smart guys" make a hole into the container all is lost.
Further in ambient air temperatures one cubic yard contains only very few drops of water, so to get a serious amount of water into your container you need a tremendous amount of air flow through your correctly closed container. Come on guys welcome to the real world!
And let us not forget as soon as the air temperatures drop below freezing the air is practicaly without any air moisture at all!!!

So where are we sofar? Water from the air highly unlikely!

As mentionrd above storage area is equally important! Having the containers rolling around in the sun because of internal pressures is a very stupid thing to do and that problems arise is completely the fault of the user. So storage in a dark area eliminates many problems.

Then fuel amounts stored is also a problem. If you mix your two stroke fuel for the next decade in a five gallon container, you loose! Small amount and frequent turn over is a good way to eliminate problems. I just mix what I need, when i need a pint I mix a pint, when I need a gallon I mix a gallon or more. The rest goes into my motorcycles/lawnmowers/lawntractors/etc. So nothing to worry about.

Visit gas stations with high turnover. They typically have the "freshest" gas.

And last ethanol is NOT the problem at all! The manufacturers who have completely neglected the problem are the problem! Would be quite easy to use ethanol resistant plastic and rubber products and never would a problem arise. They simply don't give a $h!t about it. And completely understandable so, they make money with selling products not with repairing them!

7

 

[Andyshine77]

Back to topic!

There are a few other problems NOT mentioned sofar. Proper storage containers are a must! And as far as I understood "plastic like deposits" come exactly from that! If I remember correctly Lakeside had some quite impressive pics about this topic of disolving old storage generic plastic containers. Just a week ago I met a old timmer who has "always used the old detergent bottle for his mix".
So fuel storage container should be out of a fuel resistant plastic. There are only very few that tolerate fuel and HDPE is one of them.
Further the mythe about "air moisture" getting into a correctly closed fuel storage container out of HDPE is simply stupid. HDPE is from it's molecular properties practically impermeable for water! As soon as the "smart guys" make a hole into the container all is lost.
Further in ambient air temperatures one cubic yard contains only very few drops of water, so to get a serious amount of water into your container you need a tremendous amount of air flow through your correctly closed container. Come on guys welcome to the real world!
And let us not forget as soon as the air temperatures drop below freezing the air is practicaly without any air moisture at all!!!

So where are we sofar? Water from the air highly unlikely!

As mentionrd above storage area is equally important! Having the containers rolling around in the sun because of internal pressures is a very stupid thing to do and that problems arise is completely the fault of the user. So storage in a dark area eliminates many problems.

Then fuel amounts stored is also a problem. If you mix your two stroke fuel for the next decade in a five gallon container, you loose! Small amount and frequent turn over is a good way to eliminate problems. I just mix what I need, when i need a pint I mix a pint, when I need a gallon I mix a gallon or more. The rest goes into my motorcycles/lawnmowers/lawntractors/etc. So nothing to worry about.

Visit gas stations with high turnover. They typically have the "freshest" gas.

And last ethanol is NOT the problem at all! The manufacturers who have completely neglected the problem are the problem! Would be quite easy to use ethanol resistant plastic and rubber products and never would a problem arise. They simply don't give a $h!t about it. And completely understandable so, they make money with selling products not with repairing them!

7

HDPE allows some oxygen transfer. In a proper caster no water isn't a problem, it's fuel tanks that are poorly vented, like every 4wheeler, boat and piece of power equipment I've seen, and have found water in.

Let me ask. Have you ever drained a carb bowel that was full of water? Even though the engine was stored in a garage? Have you replaced fuel pumps that were shot do to the salt sulfates in ethanol? Does any fuel in Austria even have ethanol? How hot and humid does Austria get?

You're making quite a lot of assumptions base on little, as you said real world experience, which is exactly what I'm bringing to the table.

The plastic deposit are from the polymer some refineries add to the fuel, not from using a pop bottle as a fuel can, I've seen that before too.

It is true manufacturers can designed around ethanol, but the fact is ethanol shouldn't be in our fuel in the first place.

You clearly have zero experience with the fuel issues I and everyone else in Ohio are dealing with, unless you import you fuel from Ohio.

 

[Full Chisel]

HDPE allows some oxygen transfer. In a proper caster no water isn't a problem, it's fuel tanks that are poorly vented, like every 4wheeler, boat and piece of power equipment I've seen, and have found water in.

Let me ask. Have you ever drained a carb bowel that was full of water? Even though the engine was stored in a garage? Have you replaced fuel pumps that were shot do to the salt sulfates in ethanol? Does any fuel in Austria even have ethanol? How hot and humid does Austria get?

You're making quite a lot of assumptions base on little, as you said real world experience, which is exactly what I'm bringing to the table.

The plastic deposit are from the polymer some refineries add to the fuel, not from using a pop bottle as a fuel can, I've seen that before too.

It is true manufacturers can designed around ethanol, but the fact is ethanol shouldn't be in our fuel in the first place.

You clearly have zero experience with the fuel issues I and everyone else in Ohio are dealing with, unless you import you fuel from Ohio.

He's clearly an expert on the subject!

 

[mikefunaro]

ETOH fuel is trash. Try to get a can of premix, dump your tank, and then run until you get the premix into the carb. Dump it out and onto the next one.

You may wish to try calling local race tracks and find out if they have VP non-leaded ethanol free gas for "track day' events or similar. I recently found out a local race park near me sells 93 octane VP ethanol free gas. I called VP and they told me it was basically the same thing as the SEF fuel, except I can get it for $6 a gallon, instead of a quart. Told me it should last at least 2 years, the way the SEF does. Very excited!!

 

[JTM]

I remember flying small planes with my dad. On pre-flight we would open the petcocks on the wing tanks and catch the fuel in a coke bottle. Always had water in it. That was in the 1970s.

 

[7sleeper]

HDPE allows some oxygen transfer. In a proper caster no water isn't a problem, it's fuel tanks that are poorly vented, like every 4wheeler, boat and piece of power equipment I've seen, and have found water in.

Let me ask. Have you ever drained a carb bowel that was full of water? Even though the engine was stored in a garage? Have you replaced fuel pumps that were shot do to the salt sulfates in ethanol? Does any fuel in Austria even have ethanol? How hot and humid does Austria get?

You're making quite a lot of assumptions base on little, as you said real world experience, which is exactly what I'm bringing to the table.

The plastic deposit are from the polymer some refineries add to the fuel, not from using a pop bottle as a fuel can, I've seen that before too.

It is true manufacturers can designed around ethanol, but the fact is ethanol shouldn't be in our fuel in the first place.

You clearly have zero experience with the fuel issues I and everyone else in Ohio are dealing with, unless you import you fuel from Ohio.

Hey Andy,

I don't live on your side of the world. And no we over here seem to have MUCH less problems with fuels. So obviously something strange is either going on in your production line or in your gas stations. Because I assume that our air moisture is the same to the your air moisture.

And no I never had any problems with water in carb bowls even though my lawn tractor and mowers and brushcutter and chainsaws were always stored in a very damp earth cellar at my grandparents place. For almost a decade I never had a problem. Stored all winter long and over the warm period once a month easily start the engine (lawn mower or lawntractor) and mow down an 3/4 acre grass. The two stroke brush cutter same situation start and run without a problem. The chainsaw was run every few months and never a problem.

And about plastic deposits, what good should the polymers do for the fuel?

He's clearly an expert on the subject!

Only femto compared to your unlimited wisdom...

7

 

[Andyshine77]

7 the use of polymers was actually discussed in a thread some years back, I don't recall the reason it's used, it was over my head anyway.

The humidity in this area and most of the south is extremely high, with dew points often 70℉ sometimes higher. Moisture in fuel tanks and the fuel itself is a pretty common problem.

Our fuel quality has gone south sense ethanol was added, and deregulation of certain aspects of the industry in the early 2000's. Before this I don't remember anyone having these types of problems.

It's true sometimes the issue with ethanol is overblown, if you take a few simple precautions you won't have related problems for for many years.



Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

 

[Deleted member 135597]

I remember flying small planes with my dad. On pre-flight we would open the petcocks on the wing tanks and catch the fuel in a coke bottle. Always had water in it. That was in the 1970s.

hahaha that's from rain water entering the tanks.

 

[astnmacgto]

7 the use of polymers was actually discussed in a thread some years back, I don't recall the reason it's used, it was over my head anyway.

The humidity in this area and most of the south is extremely high, with dew points often 70℉ sometimes higher. Moisture in fuel tanks and the fuel itself is a pretty common problem.

Our fuel quality has gone south sense ethanol was added, and deregulation of certain aspects of the industry in the early 2000's. Before this I don't remember anyone having these types of problems.

It's true sometimes the issue with ethanol is overblown, if you take a few simple precautions you won't have related problems for for many years.



Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

I have very similar experiences to what you are describing. and I agree the quality and regulatory aspect of the fuel is not what it should be. must be living in the corn belt that does it.