Straight from ISA's mouth

[Job Corps Tree]

No Government regulation is not the answer. But only through Education and Training may be and Certification ( how ever good or bad it may be) Just something to say Yes I have done some Training and Yes I have Learned how it should be done. Even OSHA don't want anything to do with Tree Work even after 25 Years they want to leave it to ANSI( American National standards Institute). The ISA is not a part of the US Government. It like the National Arborist Ass. now ( The Care Industry Ass.) TCIA. are there to help Train and Educate as many Tree care professionals as we can. Organization like these are to help us Regulate ourselves. Not to regulate tree People out of a Job but more to help them do better work and to be more Profitable as well as being Safer on the Job. Every time someone gets hurt on the job it costs all of us, Higher Workers Compensation insurance rates, higher Labor Rates, the cost to repair or replace Equipment. It all will Cut into anyones Bottom line $$. We all know this is not the Job for the unsafe, the unskilled. We do need some of these things to bring our Profession up to a More Professional level. A man withe a Pipe Wrench is not a Plumber, one with a hammer and a saw is a Carpenter.

 

[treeseer]

Good thread. I agree that ISA cert is good but not perfect. It does indicate a willingness to learn about and practice good tree care. Which is a whole lot better than saying you know enough and the world can kiss your anatomy. :spam:

 

[Ekka]

Did you know that pretty much everyone in the ISA is a volunteer except for the head honcho who gets paid around $150k USD.

Interesting dont you think?

 

[Sunrise Guy]

CTW Exam: It is 20 minutes, max, to FTP

Just checked the score sheet. After that, it's another ten minutes to do the two stations and descend.

 

[ClimbinArbor]

Did you know that pretty much everyone in the ISA is a volunteer except for the head honcho who gets paid around $150k USD.

Interesting dont you think?

so thats where all our money is going. if almost everyones a volunteer, where the hell doesall that money for overpriced books and tests go??

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

so thats where all our money is going. if almost everyones a volunteer, where the hell doesall that money for overpriced books and tests go??

Research and other administrative costs. I don't think the secretaries are volunteers.

The ISA Cert Arborist is an industry accreditation so to help the public know that the person they hire has proven a minimum level of knowledge.

 

[Bigus Termitius]

Research and other administrative costs. I don't think the secretaries are volunteers.

The ISA Cert Arborist is an industry accreditation so to help the public know that the person they hire has proven a minimum level of knowledge.

I'd say you are right.

I drive by HQ all the time, and I don't think all those cars are volunteers...unless they are independently wealthy with nothing better to do every day. Worldwide there are plenty of volunteers, here at home I'm sure there is a payroll.

Maybe I'll stop in some time and ask if they are all working for the big guy for coffee and donuts.

 

[mckeetree]

This is the same old song and dance concerning certification. Those who are (like me) think it is great and most of the ones that are not make bozo comments about it. Years ago when I worked for Park Cities Tree Service I learned quick to keep my pitiful little associates degree in arboriculture under my hat in order to get along with the azz clowns, jerks and hillbilly outlaws that worked there.

 

[Bigus Termitius]

This is the same old song and dance concerning certification. Those who are (like me) think it is great and most of the ones that are not make bozo comments about it. Years ago when I worked for Park Cities Tree Service I learned quick to keep my pitiful little associates degree in arboriculture under my hat in order to get along with the azz clowns, jerks and hillbilly outlaws that worked there.

Don't forget the poor guys in between that are seeking it. I have just enough college to realize that it matters not where you receive the proper knowledge just as long as you do, and can turn around and apply it.

I tend to think the ISA cert. can give you the edge in more ways than one, but it's no good at all if one can't apply it properly.

 

[Sunrise Guy]

Yeah, so many volunteers bust their butts for ISA. I was surprised to find out that the great guys and gals who run the CTW skills exams don't make anything for the work they do. Today I did the climb, and who should be one of the main judges but Tom Dunlap, whom many of you in here, especially those who have been here for a good while, know pretty well. What a great guy. It was so cool talking to a fellow whose posts I always thought were very interesting and informative. Our "community" is just another example of what a small world it is. How many of you are headed to St. Louis for the ISA Convention? I would like to go, but it's so busy that I hate to be away for any length of time. I'd have to fly in on July 25th, get a car and motel for five days, and then there's the cost of the convention, itself. I figure I'd be dropping about $500 for the convention and classes, $350 for SWA, $300 for the car and $600 for the hotel. Add in food and evening entertainment and I think I'd be looking at around $2G's. I know Uncle Sam lets me write it all off, but I'm not sure I'd rather be up at least that much if I stay here. Now if enough of y'all are going to be in SL, I might just have to head on up----

 

[treemandan]

Did you know that pretty much everyone in the ISA is a volunteer except for the head honcho who gets paid around $150k USD.

Interesting dont you think?

That doesn't sound fair or even logicall. But I guess that is the way THEY have set up THEIR structure. I think some of the guys I have met that were certified were brainwashed. I could tell by the way they all scorned me and spit upon me for being a hack in a pick up. All those guys hated my rotten guts except for a couple of my buddies who got the 'TAG' to look good.
Sometimes I think that tree guys think they are the smartest people in the world.

 

[clearance]

Today I did the climb, and who should be one of the main judges but Tom Dunlap, whom many of you in here, especially those who have been here for a good while, know pretty well. What a great guy. It was so cool talking to a fellow whose posts I always thought were very interesting and informative.

Tom Dunlap, another side, when there were discussions about spurs to trim with around powerlines, he wasn't exactly up front, in fact he misled us to quite a degree. Specificaly in regards to B.C. Hydro, and his buddy who holds a high position there, Brian Fischer.

The discussions had gone on for some time, with me being called names, a liar and so forth. I asked all those who opposed to what I and other utility guys here do for B.C. Hydro to call them about it and learn the truth. Tom Dunlap never said he knew anyone at B.C. Hydro, said he couldn't be bothered to call them and ask if they condoned trimming trees with spurs.

When, as a matter of fact, he knew Brian Fischer all the while. Boston Bull was the only guy here who called B.C. Hydro, and boy did Brian Fischer feed him a pile of b.s.. Brian Fisher said the same b.s. to my friend as well. He called me among other things, a drunk, and a liar and said he couldn't sue me because he didn't know who I was. He told B.B. he was trying to locate me.

So I called his lying azz up (Brian Fischer) and had it out with him, he is the one who told me he knew Tom and that he was the one who had been telling him about me.
The truth came out, probably going to cost me down the road, but thats ok.

So no, I talked to Tom Dunlap here, and later on came to know something about him, and it ain't good. Its all there for anyone who doubts me, search 'B.C. Hydro spurs Tom Dunlap'.

And it just made me love ISA people even more than I already did, my love is overflowing.

 

[Ekka]

Yes, sorry for not being totally accurate, there's office people etc on payroll.

1 year profit/loss to June 30 2007 goes like this

Total revenue $4,593,275

Total expenses $4,559,690 (Payroll was around $1.2million)

Current assets $2,766,457


Of the total revenue base above it came like this.

Membership dues and fees etc roughly $2million
Govt fess and contracts $2million

So they run close to the wire but have strong assets.

 

[treeseer]

So they run close to the wire but have strong assets.

Eric, I agree. And they do a lot of good work. That is why I don't mind sending them due$, and shell out the dough for the educational goods and services.

No bureaucracy is perfect, but this one is the best we have. They allocate their spending in large part on member feedback and input. So any member who has better ideas is welcome to contribute and help implement them.

 

[ClimbinArbor]

Eric, I agree. And they do a lot of good work. That is why I don't mind sending them due$, and shell out the dough for the educational goods and services.

No bureaucracy is perfect, but this one is the best we have. They allocate their spending in large part on member feedback and input. So any member who has better ideas is welcome to contribute and help implement them.

+10

although i still think the educational goods are a lilllll high

 

[Ekka]

Without some forensic accounting it's difficult to determine if any preferential or bias payments are going anywhere.

It's also important to note that without their govt contracts the membership fees and cert fees WOULD NOT COVER their expenses.

From a balance sheet perspective, with the revenue they have, they are managing well.

They have around $3million in assets, but that's less than 1 years turn over and likely not liquid funds. I would say that overall they do a good job as far as an organisation goes. They simply dont have the funds to piss on everyones personal fire, and for all you know they're volunteer firefighters anyway.

What I dont like, and it's not so much an ISA issue but perhaps a USA issue, is that their cert is like gospel, but we dont go to an Accounting or Lawyer org for our certs and degrees do we? In other words I think the ISA picked up the slack in the USA education system.

Things are different here as they are in many other countries. We go to TAFE etc to get qualifications, we go to classes and do assignments and pass exams etc ... just like a college or Uni. Then there's people running around with an ISA cert calling themselves arborists on equal footing, I dont think so, but that's my take based on what I see.

However for USA people it might be the best you can do, unless you have a college course around.

What I would do if I were you guys with other certs is ask and lobby ISA to RECOGNISE OTHER CERTIFICATIONS and with a small fee endorse them.

For example, I should be able to throw my certs etc on the table, pay the fee and get there piece of paper. We do it here for other countries certs but I doubt we'll swap an arb qualification for an ISA cert one, just worlds apart.

 

[treeseer]

In other words I think the ISA picked up the slack in the USA education system.

Absolutely true. My state's land grant university ignores this need for arb ed as it chases dollars. Pitiful pompous gasbags imho.

What I would do if I were you guys with other certs is ask and lobby ISA to RECOGNISE OTHER CERTIFICATIONS and with a small fee endorse them. .

This has already happened with the European cert. They heard ya Eric, even before you spoke!

 

[ClimbinArbor]

Things are different here as they are in many other countries. We go to TAFE etc to get qualifications, we go to classes and do assignments and pass exams etc ... just like a college or Uni. Then there's people running around with an ISA cert calling themselves arborists on equal footing, I dont think so, but that's my take based on what I see.

this goes back to the old argument of schooling versus experience....

there is a vast hole between a man with 40 years experience, who has no formal certification, and a greenhorn whose fresh out of school. That hole is filled with the rest of us, who dont need a cane to climb a tree lol.

me personally, ill take any hard worker, whose got good common sense and is halfway intellectual. any good man can be taught to care for trees in under a year. minus the new things you learn everyday lol

 

[Ekka]

Yes for sure experience counts, our system accommodates it with ROPL (Recognition Of Prior Learning) and skills can be assessed and then accredited for.

Nice hey.

 

[D Mc]

this goes back to the old argument of schooling versus experience....

there is a vast hole between a man with 40 years experience, who has no formal certification, and a greenhorn whose fresh out of school. That hole is filled with the rest of us, who dont need a cane to climb a tree lol.

me personally, ill take any hard worker, whose got good common sense and is halfway intellectual. any good man can be taught to care for trees in under a year. minus the new things you learn everyday lol

Ha! Laugh if you will, but you never would have slipped off that sycamore limb the other day if you had a good, handy cane with you! And, by the way those little rubber things on the end are really good for scratching body parts you can't reach any more!

Dave