stream resto

[paccity]

was up our local water supply water shed. and came across this , i have seen in the past where large logs and root balls have been put in . but this looks a bit different . to me it looks like a prob when we have a large rain melt event . is there a good science to this or is it another feel good thing to spend money on.

 

[paccity]

ignore till i figure the pic's out, sorry.

 

[Gologit]

ignore till i figure the pic's out, sorry.

Okay. What are they putting in the streams now?

 

[paccity]

Okay. What are they putting in the streams now?

looks like some nice saw logs. just looks like a prob come the next flood.

 

[2dogs]

Are the logs anchored? That only seems to work in small streams.

 

[paccity]

wish i could post pic's . it seems all my pic's even one's i have posted in the past are now to big. hope they square this site out soon.

 

[paccity]

Are the logs anchored? That only seems to work in small streams.

not anchored , but wedged in the standing alders on the bank and interlocked from side to side if that makes scene . just seems like a debris trap in flood conditions . and would cause some major erosion as the flow looks for an easier path. the creek looks to have a nice combination of gravel bars and pools and channels . but what do i know. i'm not an ologist .

 

[slowp]

Columbia Helicopters was putting some monster logs in creeks and rivers east of Waldport and Florence. In fact, they were cutting trees of a size that would be called Old Growth and protested about. Don't know how they worked out.

Up here on the Cispus river, logs were put in and anchored into the bank to divert the current away from a road. They worked and stayed put during the 2006 event. The fish bio here can't seem to get the funding that the Oregon folks get. It is a VERY touchy feelie project and gets lots of good press, even TV happy story coverage. But other than the Cispus logs, I've never heard how they work out, if they stay put or if they float out to the ocean.

 

[Gologit]

Columbia Helicopters was putting some monster logs in creeks and rivers east of Waldport and Florence. In fact, they were cutting trees of a size that would be called Old Growth and protested about. Don't know how they worked out.

Up here on the Cispus river, logs were put in and anchored into the bank to divert the current away from a road. They worked and stayed put during the 2006 event. The fish bio here can't seem to get the funding that the Oregon folks get. It is a VERY touchy feelie project and gets lots of good press, even TV happy story coverage. But other than the Cispus logs, I've never heard how they work out, if they stay put or if they float out to the ocean.

From what I've seen some stay and some head for the salt. On one beautiful little trout stream near here they practically wiped out the resident fish population and spent three years undoing the damage from a three month project....but that never made the TV news.
Fraser could tell just by looking that the log placement probably wasn't the best. But all he has is many years of good woods experience and a whole lot of common sense and a good way of communicating...I doubt if the 'ologists, with their degrees and their "I went to college so I'm smarter than you" attitude would take the time to even listen to him. And that's a shame.

 

[paccity]

well i don't get up to where they did this very often . but last year saw a cold deck there that was nice, and wounder d why they were there. as they did not come from any were close. but i have seen the water over the bridges there more than once. we get a good snowpack with a pineapple express it's going to tear heck out of everything down that valley. and prob choke up with debris and plug and flood. just thinkin.

 

[OlympicYJ]

They stuck a bunch of logs in the rivers on the Peninsula back when the Spotted Owl hit. They took that crap out a while later. Did some super spendy engineered logjams to save 101 on the Hoh. Pretty pointless to spend 1.7 mill, think that's what it was might of been 7 mill, when for about 250,000 they could have hogged out a new channel where the river used to be... It's no like it would have been anymore disruptive than corking both ends so they could study the stream bed for proper placement....

As far as the science goes I don't think there's much to validate or not validate. It's kind of one of those things that depends on who you're talking to. Anymore I think it's more of a hand's off approach around here for the large woody debris thing.

 

[slowp]

i'm cynical, but I guess most of you know that. I'm thinking they do it because they get grants to do that work. Budget is a big problem these days, and there isn't a lot of timber sale planning. That used to fund the 'ologists through most of the fiscal year. They took the money, but complained that they wished they could do their "real job". The fish log projects were heavenly for them.

I did hear that somebody did raise a stink about cutting the big old punkins for fish logs without doing the proper NEPA work. That slowed it down in Oregon. Here, the two fish guys had and still have log decks rotting out in the woods, off limits to firewood, because they need them for streams. The trouble is, they've never gotten the funding. We let woodcutters into one decking area. They cleaned it up nicely and then waste from the giant slide could be put there.

Frazier, who is the land owner that is having the work done? BLM? Oregon?

 

[paccity]

i'm cynical, but I guess most of you know that. I'm thinking they do it because they get grants to do that work. Budget is a big problem these days, and there isn't a lot of timber sale planning. That used to fund the 'ologists through most of the fiscal year. They took the money, but complained that they wished they could do their "real job". The fish log projects were heavenly for them.

I did hear that somebody did raise a stink about cutting the big old punkins for fish logs without doing the proper NEPA work. That slowed it down in Oregon. Here, the two fish guys had and still have log decks rotting out in the woods, off limits to firewood, because they need them for streams. The trouble is, they've never gotten the funding. We let woodcutters into one decking area. They cleaned it up nicely and then waste from the giant slide could be put there.

Frazier, who is the land owner that is having the work done? BLM? Oregon?

it's a mix of weyco, state , blm and city of dallas. i think the the creek is city of dallas. this is one of our main water sources for the town. there is a Reservoir down stream about 5 miles from the jam.

 

[paccity]

well it appears that pic's over 4mb is to big now. now i have to figure out how to make my pic's shrink. new site blue's.

 

[OlympicYJ]

Hmm interesting. I wouldn't be doing that kind of work on the upstream side of a water supply. I'd just let nature do her thing.

 

[madhatte]

Logs in streams? Always a contentious issue. At this point I'm inclined to just let the decision-makers do whatever makes them feel good.

 

[HuskStihl]

well it appears that pic's over 4mb is to big now. now i have to figure out how to make my pic's shrink. new site blue's.

Off topic, but I'm digging the fact I can take a picture on my iphone and immediately put it on the site from the phone without having to email it to myself then do it from a computer. Pics are real easy to resize and most of the picture viewers have an option to save a smaller copy. Looking forward to seeing it

 

[Joe46]

Well, it really is a two sided coin. Back when I got my Fish Tech degree they were pulling everything out of the streams. As Frazier noted when the rains come it was washing the crap out of things as far as spawning gravel and holding areas for fry. So after spending money taking everything out, they realized that some debris in streams were not a bad thing. I haven't been involved in fish work since the Judge Boldt days, so have no idea what the currant thinking is, but debris( logs, root wads) is not a bad thing for fish if and there is the operative word IF done right. Floods are going to happen unless you concrete in the river channels.

 

[slowp]

Liability was an issue in our fair state.

http://methowvalleynews.com/2013/07...landowners-from-liability-in-salmon-projects/

 

[paccity]