Street Tree Suggestions

[Menchhofer]

I have been asked to give estimate on removing 6 locust trees for a neighborhood association. The trees are along a busy downtown street between the street and a brick sidewalk. The trees and the roots are destroying the brick walk.

After the trees are removed they must be replaced. The area between the street (curb) and the sidewalk is only about 3 ft or so. I really do not see how the poor trees grow in this area in the first place. My first thought was to replace the locusts with Redspire pear tree or aristocrat, however the city forestry dpt says no pear tree of any type due to the bradford experiences. The trees need to be 2-2.5" dia also and I am thinking that it would be a good size root ball to place in the confined area.

The more I thought about the pear trees, perhaps they would not work well due to the fact of the sidewalk and street traffic w/the lower limbs.

Any suggest a good tree for this type of environment? Zone 5 I believe. Thanks

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Oh heck, down here they'd take out total 100"DBH 50' Live Oaks and replace withtotal 100"DBH 15' Palms with everything stripped but center bud; and want applause!

 

[NeTree]

Wouldn't the pre-existing roots from the locusts prohibit planting in the same spot for a period of time? And has there been any consideration to installing some type of root barrier before replanting?

 

[Menchhofer]

I have already given thought to providing root barrior towards the brick walk.

Stumps are to be gound out and topsoil replaced. I plan to not place the trees in the exact same location.

 

[NeTree]

You'll need something that tolerates pollution from exhaust & road salt as well.

Dogwoods are nice, although a bit cliche and way too common (for my taste).

Sycamores are less common, and would prune nicely to fit the restrictions. They can get pretty large when mature though.

Birch maybe?Less common as a street tree (around here anyways), and the growth pattern lends itself well to little "side room".

Are these trees just something to fill in the landscape or dhould they actually provide something? Are there going to be benches underneath for people to enjoy shade, etc.?

 

[Guy Meilleur]

who will maintain them? If an arborist, maybe a Prunus mume, for winter flowers. If a city whacker, maybe a redbud?

 

[Dobber]

could you go with a mophead maple or something the same size the 3 feet would be enough and they dont grow big.

 

[Eagle1]

What kind of Locust? I did a large "Spiney" over the summer. You will be a human pin cushion. Loccust is heavy and I am sure you will have to grind as low as possible. Definitly will need some kind of root barrier for the new implants. Locust have long hard spread out roots.

Sounds like fun.

Are they going to repair the heaving first?

 

[Eagle1]

oh yea...How about small Red Maples?

 

[Ax-man]

How about Little Leaf Linden, our town recently rehabed the downtown main street and planted Lindens. They are doing good considering the stress factors they have to endure, only time will tell as this is only their 3rd. year.

A neighboring city did a similar project 10 yrs. ago and planted Lindens. All the trees survived and are growing, but to me they are too big a tree for the space they have. It won't be long before they start hacking on them to control their size, by improper pruning. Then they start go downhill, next will be removal and the cycle will repeat itself.

I share the concerns of netree, about the loucust roots as they are nasty to get rid of, replanting trees where the loucusts came out is going to be a big pain. I would try to work out some other type of solution other than replanting trees if possible. Some type of raised planter boxes with perennials, flowers, of what ever. The women will love you for it.

While were on this street tree subject. Why aren't the columnar and fastigate forms of shade trees used more in these narrow planting sites. I know they are hard to come by commercially and probaly more expensive. I would think it would be money well spent over the long run, or is it because they just don't do as well as their wider spreading counter parts

 

[TREETX]

After seeing Chinaberries planted as street trees, nothing would suprise me.

They are not that odd of a pick when considering few street trees even reach age 20.

I read somewhere what the avg age was. Anyone know??

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by TREETX
After seeing Chinaberries planted as street trees, nothing would suprise me.
Why does everyone dis chinaberries? Blur-green foliage, golden berries, fast growth, not as brittle as their reputation; what's not to like? One study showed the avg urban tree lived to the ripe old age of 7. so why plant oaks where they won't thrive?

 

[NeTree]

It's a darn shame though, isn't it?

Anyhow, I think maybe the forester *should* be the one to decide; he knowing so much more about trees than us, after all.

It's always tough to plant something where you know it has no room to thrive. Live maybe, but not thrive.

 

[ray benson]

Hi Steve,
Munster Indiana has a residential tree program for the parkway.
Trees selected by the town for planting in narrow parkways include the
Armstrong red maple, columnar Norway maple and columnar sugar maple. Also
recommended are vase-shaped crab apple varieties including the American beauty,
centurion, red baron and Van Eseltine.
These trees and others were selected by the town because they are relatively
disease- and insect-free, have few litter problems, have non-invasive root
systems and are durable and sturdy enough to withstand parkway conditions.
I might be able to get the complete list from that town.Send me
an E-mail if you need it.
Ray

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by ray benson
crab apple varieties including the American beauty,
centurion, red baron and Van Eseltine.
These trees and others were selected by the town because they are relatively
disease- and insect-free, have few litter problems,

crabapples with little litter? Wake Forest NC had nice maturing crabapples along their historic district; whacked em all on a sunday morning cuz the shopkeepers were tired of sweepin the fruit.

Still, a nice local list; hope it does some good!

 

[Jumper]

Until the advent of the Asian Longhorn Beetle, maples did well in the Toronto area. My parents have a beaut on the city's 3 foot piece of lawn between the sidewalk and the street that literally was shoved into the ground with little or no hole dug in 1972. It has thrived despite poor soil. Guess I am partial to native sugar maples more than Norways. The samaras can be a mess though.

 

[NYCHA FORESTER]

I try and think outside the box. Without seeing the site here are a few suggestions.

Large tree: Nyssa sylvatica, Platanus occidentalis or orientalis, Quercus imbricaria, Quercus acutissima, Quercus bicolor. A fruitless Morus may also work in your site, or Zelkova

Med to Large: Carpinus betula, Quercus robor (lots of neat culitvars out there) various Prunus species too, Ostrya carpinifolia.

Small Tree: Cornus kousa, various Syringa,

I don't like using Acer due to salt issues (except for platanoides)

These are just a few suggestions....regardless what you pick be aware of clearance issues. I also recommend treating the trees with Cambistat to help reduce the mortality potential and help the tree establish its roots.

 

[che]

I live near Danville, KY.

A few years back the city took out all the street trees...and replaced them with Gingkos! I thought they were nuts, these are average sized sidewalks....I figured they'd grow out like the other Gingko's I've seen and would have to be removed in short time. I can't imagine what it cost....they're quite expensive as whips, and these were at least 7+ ft tall to start.

The type they chose is more columnar and I'm quite pleased to say I believe I was WRONG.

They dump their leaves all at once, easy cleanup. Nice yellow fall color. Wonderful, unique leaf shape. Comparatively pest free. Of course, there may be a fruit problem in the future....but hopefully these were able to be sexed at that size first.

Just a thought.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Here is a salt tolerance list from UCO.

High Tolerance - up to 8 mmhos(mS)
Acer plantanoides - Norway Maple
Aesculus hippocastanum Common Horsechestnut
Ailanthus altissima - Tree of Heaven
Amelanchier canadensis - Shadblow
Crataegus crus-galli - Cockspur Hawthorn
Elaeagnus angustifolia - Russian Olive - possibly up to 10 mmhos
Gleditsia triacanthos - Honeylocust
Quercus alba - White Oak
Quercus robur - English Oak
Quercus rubra - Red oak
Robinia pseudoacacia - Black Locust
Ptelea trifoliata - Wafer Ash

Moderately High Tolerance - up to 6 mmhos
Acer negundo - Box-elder
Acer ginnala - Amur maple
Betula lenta - Sweet Birch
Betula populifolia - Grey Birch
Betula alleghaniensis - Yellow Birch
Betula papyrifera - Paper Birch
Fraxinus americana - White Ash
Populus alba - White Poplar
Populus deltoides - Eastern Cottonwood
Populus grandidentata - Large-toothed Aspen
Populus nigra - Lombardy Poplar
Populus tremuloides - Trembling (Quaking) Aspen
Prunus padus - European Bird Cherry
Prunus serotina - Black Cherry
Prunus virginiana - Choke Cherry
Salix alba `Tristis' - Golden Weeping Willow
Salix alba `Vitellina' - Golden Willow
Salix nigra - Black Willow
Sophora japonica - Japanese Pagoda Tree
Ulmus pumila - Siberian Elm

Moderate Tolerance - up to 4 mmhos
Catalpa speciosa - Northern Catalpa
Celtis occidentalis - Hackberry
Celtis reticulata - Netleaf hackberry
Cercis occidentalis - Western Redbud
Fraxinus anomala - Singleleaf Ash
Fraxinus excelsior - European Ash
Fraxinus pennsylvanica - Green Ash
Ginkgo biloba - Maindenhair Tree
Koelreuteria paniculata - Goldenrain Tree
Maclura pomifera - Osage-Orange
Pyrus species - Pear
Ulmus americana - American Elm

Slight Tolerance - up to 2 mmhos
Quercus palustris - Pin Oak
Malus species and cultivars - Apple and Crabapple

Sensitive or Intolerant
Acer rubrum - Red Maple
Acer saccharinum - Silver Maple
Acer saccharum - Sugar Maple
Cercis canadensis - Eastern Redbud
Juglans nigra - Black Walnut
Plantanus acerifolia - London Plane
Sorbus aucuparia - European Mountain-Ash
Tilia americana - American linden
Tilia cordata - Littleleaf Linden
Coniferous Trees

High Tolerance - up to 8 mmhos
Juniperus chinensis - Pfitzer juniper
Picea glauca ` densata' - Black Hills Spruce
Pinus mugo - Mugho Pine
Pinus nigra - Austrian Pine

Moderately High Tolerance - up to 6 mmhos
Pinus ponderosa - Ponderosa Pine
Pinus thunbergiana - Japanese Black Pine
Thuja occidentalis - American Arborvitae

Slight Tolerance - up to 2 mmhos
Picea albies - Norway Spruce
Pinus strobus - Eastern White Pine
Pinus sylvestris - Scot's Pine
Pseudotsuga menziesii - Douglas Fir
Taxus cuspidata - Japanese Yew

Sensitive or Intolerant
Abies balsamea - Balsam Fir
Pinus resinosa - Red or Norway Pine
Tsuga canadensis - Canadian Hemlock

 

[Matt Follett]

I think my first move would be to talk with the association, and the CF. Sounds like there may be many issues to address here beyond just 'which tree'.

First off, what will be happening to the walk? Is it going to be removed and replaced? repared in place etc. Beacuse herin lies probelm #1 the removal of the tree is do to damage 'they' caused. Do you want to recommend planting a vigorous tree, which will ultimately follow in the locust footsteps...?

What is the tolerance level of the association for debris/clean up.
How about view to signs/store fronts.

What is a desired ultimate height/size, or time span to replace.

What can be done to prevent future walk damage, barriers have been suggested. Will these be installed by you? outside contractor? and what type. will they signifigantly reduce the already small root zone?

Once these types of questions are answered, your descisions will become easier, as you will have less of a pool to choose from.

Have you done a soil test? at minimum a pH level, and salt content would be good too.

Unfortunatly many of our 'small' trees are understory plants (dappled light, nice loamy soil, good moisture, the place where I would like to live) , and struggle in the harse hot, dry, low oxygenated desert of a city scape.

We've had good succes with the almighty Ulmus americana, as they seem to have been vandilized/driven over/stranglulated by bike locks and christmas lights long before any beetle gets there!
But again a heavy rooter, which may lead to somebody tripping over the 1/4 inch gap in the bricks, causeing your poor city to be sued due to negligence for not paving the world flat and putting us in plastic bubbles with unbrellas (oops I digressed)

anyway... I would start by getting a soild spec from the city and the association, so that you have a more defined idea of what you need to look for.

Oh yeah, and wee need a speel cheque