Matt Follett
ArboristSite Operative
Zelkova serrata is pretty tough too, a good one medium size space/junk soil
Street Tree Suggestions
- Thread starter Menchhofer
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Hi Guy,
The crabapple really could be a maintenance problem and quite messy depending on the variety you plant.
But there are varieties that are fruitless; biennial bearing; do not drop their fruit; varieties that hold their fruit
till winter and columnar types that do not spread out-keeping the mess to a smaller area.Quite a mind boggling
number of varieties.
Ray
The crabapple really could be a maintenance problem and quite messy depending on the variety you plant.
But there are varieties that are fruitless; biennial bearing; do not drop their fruit; varieties that hold their fruit
till winter and columnar types that do not spread out-keeping the mess to a smaller area.Quite a mind boggling
number of varieties.
Ray
Eagle1
ArboristSite Operative
Matt. Good points. That is the best response to that thread yet. That plan should be the course of action.
Menchhofer
ArboristSite Guru
I realize there are additional issues that need to be thought out w/regards to this project. Thing is, will people listed to what needs to be addressed.
Unfortunately, I believe the general opinion of the neighborhood association (and the FD) is to remove the trees and start over again, without trying to fix problem, due to higher costs involved.
I have already suggested replacing the trees with smaller shrubs/flower boxes, etc. I got a resounding NO...the trees must be replaced with trees.
Some times you just gotta go with the flow.
Unfortunately, I believe the general opinion of the neighborhood association (and the FD) is to remove the trees and start over again, without trying to fix problem, due to higher costs involved.
I have already suggested replacing the trees with smaller shrubs/flower boxes, etc. I got a resounding NO...the trees must be replaced with trees.
Some times you just gotta go with the flow.
begleytree
H. sapiens moderatus
First get with CF and get an approved species list. Barring that get a copy of what they have/ are planting now.
Is this planting area confined to boxes? Or is it a strip?
If its boxes, make sure you are not required to provide safety grates around the tree. Who mulches? Gurantee period? Any nursery will gurantee plants for 1 year, but you still have to dig them up and replant them. How do you get paid for that time, materials, labor?
staking? who maintains it, and removes it when time? tree wrap required?
Do you plant trees as a general rule, or on occasion only?
Check into a local landscaper to sub the plantings, gurantee, worry, ect, to, it'll probably be cheaper in the long run. or even submit a bid for tree removal only, and submit landscapers bid with yours so its 2 seperate bids, and seperate liabilities.
Do not attempt to aquire these at a local nursery, even if they will offer you a 'discount'
with your tax id you can purchase them at wholesale for 1/3 the price of the 'discount' I normally order and pay about $30 each for 12-14' specimens. normally $125 at garden center, then discounted because I'm a good guy down to $75 a tree, [/sarcasm] what a deal [/sarcasm off]
hope I was of some help, or muddied the water more! I don't know you, or your experience, so if I said something you already know, no slight is intended
-Ralph
Is this planting area confined to boxes? Or is it a strip?
If its boxes, make sure you are not required to provide safety grates around the tree. Who mulches? Gurantee period? Any nursery will gurantee plants for 1 year, but you still have to dig them up and replant them. How do you get paid for that time, materials, labor?
staking? who maintains it, and removes it when time? tree wrap required?
Do you plant trees as a general rule, or on occasion only?
Check into a local landscaper to sub the plantings, gurantee, worry, ect, to, it'll probably be cheaper in the long run. or even submit a bid for tree removal only, and submit landscapers bid with yours so its 2 seperate bids, and seperate liabilities.
Do not attempt to aquire these at a local nursery, even if they will offer you a 'discount'
with your tax id you can purchase them at wholesale for 1/3 the price of the 'discount' I normally order and pay about $30 each for 12-14' specimens. normally $125 at garden center, then discounted because I'm a good guy down to $75 a tree, [/sarcasm] what a deal [/sarcasm off]
hope I was of some help, or muddied the water more! I don't know you, or your experience, so if I said something you already know, no slight is intended
-Ralph
DadF
ArboristSite Operative
If they are replacing the sidewalk, contact Dr Gilman. He had some new research he was doing that seemed to inhibit root growth by using washed gravel for the sub base.
Ray-some of the crabs you mentioned didn't make sense to me. The Centurions around here are fairly low branched and wide spreading while the VanEsetines have many problems with fireblight in this area.
I agree that you need to get with the CF and really see what they are expecting the plantings to accomplish. If it's just going to be typical landscape that is expected to change again in 15 years then I agree with Rocky. But if they are really wanting a long-term(50+years) planting, then the whole soil test program and on should be adhered to.
Ray-some of the crabs you mentioned didn't make sense to me. The Centurions around here are fairly low branched and wide spreading while the VanEsetines have many problems with fireblight in this area.
I agree that you need to get with the CF and really see what they are expecting the plantings to accomplish. If it's just going to be typical landscape that is expected to change again in 15 years then I agree with Rocky. But if they are really wanting a long-term(50+years) planting, then the whole soil test program and on should be adhered to.
DadF -Ya, the town has had the program in place since 1991.
Sounds like it's overdue to be ammended.
Ray
Sounds like it's overdue to be ammended.
Ray
coffeecraver
ArboristSite Operative
We use the Zelkova serrata in the City of Richmond
Nice tree
Nice tree
Matt Follett
ArboristSite Operative
Zelkova, yep not bad,
Saw lots in Japan at resonable maturity in down town areas, looked tough... we have a few around here, and I've used them on occasion. Holding up pretty well.
Most nursery specimens seem to have been 'tipped' and have developed serious multi stems (as they mature) So I think proper pruning is very important with these guys... you need a little follow up in the first few years, but then again don't we/they all!
Saw lots in Japan at resonable maturity in down town areas, looked tough... we have a few around here, and I've used them on occasion. Holding up pretty well.
Most nursery specimens seem to have been 'tipped' and have developed serious multi stems (as they mature) So I think proper pruning is very important with these guys... you need a little follow up in the first few years, but then again don't we/they all!
jmchristopher
ArboristSite Member
I concur with the Zelkova - They are tough trees and relatively very low maintenance. Recommend a structural pruning pass in a couple years and long term maintenace will be even lower. I also strongly concur with the Cambistat suggestion, but have it budgeted for a few years down the line so the trees get a chance to grow out. Then again, maybe not... hammer their growth rate from getgo and have very slow growing, drought resistant trees for a LONG time.
Dan F
ArboristSite Operative
Steve,
In HORT 317, Dr. Dana (no, wait, was it FNR 444, Dr. Holt? I don't remember, it was one of those two!) stated that there has been research conducted that concluded that a properly installed sidewalk of proper thickness will not heave due to roots underneath. This could be the study that Dad was referring to by Gilman. I'm pretty sure I've seen JPS state the same thing on AS before.
If you can convince them to start over, do so. If not, then go have a cup of coffee at the "donkey" coffee shop (local joke for those of you not in the area), and remember that these people are probably the ones complaining about the name of the aforementioned coffee house...
BTW, if you want an estimate for new trees, I think we (ShrubWorks) would be happy to give you one.
Dan
In HORT 317, Dr. Dana (no, wait, was it FNR 444, Dr. Holt? I don't remember, it was one of those two!) stated that there has been research conducted that concluded that a properly installed sidewalk of proper thickness will not heave due to roots underneath. This could be the study that Dad was referring to by Gilman. I'm pretty sure I've seen JPS state the same thing on AS before.
If you can convince them to start over, do so. If not, then go have a cup of coffee at the "donkey" coffee shop (local joke for those of you not in the area), and remember that these people are probably the ones complaining about the name of the aforementioned coffee house...
BTW, if you want an estimate for new trees, I think we (ShrubWorks) would be happy to give you one.
Dan
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
The study you're refering to is with slab construction concrete. Trees next to brick will allways be problematic.
That said, there was an interesting papaer in JoA on tennis court construction a few summers back.
I would think that if the walk had a deep base that had a barrier wrapped it in tree dimentions, there wold be less chance for roots to get in and cause damamge.
The under the base is a layer of a structural soil that allows aeration/root penetration....
It seems that the parties involved just want to plant new trees though, not solve the problem for the long term.
Does sound like a nice demonstration project that could write a series of articles in 5, 10 and 15 years
That said, there was an interesting papaer in JoA on tennis court construction a few summers back.
I would think that if the walk had a deep base that had a barrier wrapped it in tree dimentions, there wold be less chance for roots to get in and cause damamge.
The under the base is a layer of a structural soil that allows aeration/root penetration....
It seems that the parties involved just want to plant new trees though, not solve the problem for the long term.
Does sound like a nice demonstration project that could write a series of articles in 5, 10 and 15 years
