Strip or Slanted Hinge

[TheTreeSpyder]

We talk a lot about climbing and safety, but a lot of it is about cutting too of course.

i was wondering what type of hinge shape people most often made, or looked to make and perhaps why.

 

[Stumper]

A strip mostly.-because it is easy to get it right and it works well for most situations. Heavy leans off line of fall or unbalanced situations may lead me to use a tapered hinge. Actually, on big stuff I tend toward double tapered hinges-I cut out the center leaving holding wood on the edges.

 

[Froggy]

Reply

Well I have to say I use both. Depending on the situation. i try to use the most efficient and safe way I can. BB

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i think that any time there is lean to either side of the fall correction to that off balanced pulling force should be made before the faces of the FaceCut meet (slamming forcefully together) when using equal faces (non step dutchman).

i think the hinge does a fantastic mechanical job, and for most positive, safe, powerfull, easy etc. motion, these mechanics should be run tightly and balanced; like any other machine.

i think a tapered hinge is so pervasive, nature provides it in a strip hinge you have cut, other hinge adjustments induce it, when there is offside lean; so all we do is exemplify this effect.

With these thoughts, it is a rarity for me to look to or to make a straight, strip hinge; for that would only be for cutting balanced (across the hinge pulls) wood. That is a rarity.


i beleive this is correct and you can get more out of the motions /hinges by following this logic. it works in felling , bucking , rigging etc. even pulling up.

Things/ forces should be balanced on the pivot of the hinge, like any other pivot, bearing etc., and then subsequetially serve balanced force on both sides as faces slam shut evenly, to throw forward into the face evenly. IML,H,O.


:alien:

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

A straight tree should have a strip hinge. As the tree leans to the side, the hinge should be angled to compensate for that lean, aand most trees lean, one way or another. Once you get up in the tree, almost all the limbs are leaning, so, if I get Spyders point, most notches should be triangle.

That said, I tend to use a rope to equalize the lean when I drop a tree, so back to the strip.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Originally posted by Mike Maas
Once you get up in the tree, almost all the limbs are leaning, so, if I get Spyders point, most notches should be triangle.

But Mike my reputation......

My most use of this in tree is most dramatic on horizontal limbs; the leveraged pull is very high on the hinge and always down.

So wide end of triangle is up for any degree of sideways sweep, or off balance pull, plotting gravitity's pull and desired direction once again, and adjusting hinge to it.

i think that this tapered hinge is very powerful, self adjusting, safe, requires the least amount of set up, men and tools; also can be used in tandem to any other balancing effort. It is the ever present sleeping, friendly giant ready to help (in good wood).

i think this mechanical model works at any angle, set of pulls. Felling, rigging, bucking all becoming hinging of compressed and stretched wood fiber, to manipulate to target.

Even with a strip hinge, any off balance pulls (after rope etc.) will naturally be handdled in a tapered hinge format within the straight hinge! IML,H,O

Also, loads should be balanced on this machine as any other.

:alien:

 

[murphy4trees]

I have recently developped the habit of leaving a little more hinge on the side away from the house, driveway etc... Just a little insurance... I had a pine tree give me a scare a few years ago when it came soooooooo close to the corner of a house...

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i do the same thing, more forgiveness in such a system.

Even in climbing, i might leave the side of the hinge away from me a lil thick, at least right to the last moment.

Here i survey the adjustment choices that are typical and how they serve to balance out the machine's forces prior to the faces slapping together.

 

[StIhL MaGnUm]

I can't really say I use one or the other the way I see it is that every tree is unique in it's own way.So I guess I would have to say on a tree that has no side lean I would use the strip hinge,but on timber with side lean,or head lean and or a combo of the two thats when I use the triangle hinge to compensate for the lean of course I leave more hingewood on the offside to pull it away from it's lean.On tree's that have problems with fiberpull is the only time I bore out the heart and split the hinge in half..Does this make sense??Well this should be a good thread I will make sure to check back.Let's hear it Spyder..

Later Rob.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Originally posted by RockyJSquirrel
If the face cut is aimed properly, then your tapered or 'triangle' hinge is usually not necessary.

i think the face sholud be where you want it to go, you should make tree strike at the gunned line, gunned from each corner of the hinge. i think this is because the outside reaches of face and hinge have the most leverage, so the slap into these face areas should be equal when the face closes, to throw forward evenly. Or even fold more positively upward to crane. So with OffSide Lean, uncorrected, the slap would be off, unequal, or the pull of crane up to tear off. So just a proper aimed face wouldn't always suffice against a side lean, true there is some forgiveness in the strength of the hinge to some OffSide Pull, but it is so easy to bring it right or closer to, with this correction.

But for best, most powerfull motion to target, as any machine tight and balanced is maximum. It also offers a wider range of adjustment, so therefore more options, power, staability and uses, it is the correct machine.

i think this is so key to maximizing control, power, safety and options in all cutting that doesn't get cut straight thru ; and falls totaly free without holding on. Anything else that hinges or slaps faces all this is very pertinent to, for each cut, i think this is the science for felling, bucking, topping etc. And in some ways have felt i have fallen far short of correct presentation for it's importance, frequency.

Mr. Stihl....... i wouldn't center punch a side leaner for that or trust any rot, other violation of the hinging fibre , for it 'deflates' what i call stacked resistance of the fibres of the hinge, that is working to pull the side leaner to center for you. The exception is if fibre violation (saw or nature) is in the end of the hinge opposite lean, where here it decreases leverage against lean instead.

Really interested in loggers etc. views here, bring more buddies wit'ya, to test al of this on that scale. And, that is where i first started getting alerted to all of this was D. Douglas Dent's "Proffessional Timber Falling-a Procedural Approach".
Dent on Hinging Thread

i think every cut should be evaluated for OffSide Lean, where to steer around, push through etc. and that the pushes and pulls across the hinge (E/W on a N or S fall)should be equalized as much as possible before the faces slap. i think this is the best thing to do, and slanting the saw is the easiet way to do it!

i'm kinda inclined to say that would be the proffessional way to proceed and practice habitually if you did this work every day;...... but wish to put no one down, just point out how important and simple it is to do, IML,H,A,O of course. These are the reasons i bring it back for another round, then fold this into some of the rigs set to max power and balance in machined, safe delivery.

:alien:

 

[StIhL MaGnUm]

Spyder,

I never do bore the center's of side leaners,I always keep the hinge wood across the stump..I was just refering to boring the center on fiberpullers not leaners.I agree Dent's book is excellent material I have read it a few times,always willing to learn ya know..Hopefully some more of the loggers here will add to this thread..

Later Rob.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Power in Leveraged Hinge

The powerfull, posititve, self adjusting force and range of these holding fibres opposite lean can be immense. And also there automatically , self adjusting control.

This tapered hinge occurs with all adjsutments to hinge under OffSide Lean, even taking over within a Strip Hinge under sidelean stress and assimilating a tapered/triangle hinge pattern within the strip hinge itself IML,H,A,O. This is because the compressed fibres in the strip hinge directly under the lean do not pull, like any other compressed fibre. Both lift adjustments of lean to center of facecut (lifting from heavy side to light for balance) occur at the hinge and cause a tearing of the leaning side of the hinge first, causing the triangle hinge to taper across as it tears from lean side to light side. This occurs in both heavy side lifts, whether dutchman in front of hinge, or wedge behind, both are lift adjustment choices to lean, both tear leanside of hinge first. Dutchman is a passive adjustment ruled by input force (as hinge) while a wedge carries the force directly exerting it itself making it an active force like line pull.

Also, just like a rope bent sharply, the outermost fibres from the pull get leveraged the most; only with a tree's hinge, you can strategically place more fibre in that leveraged position. So as that flexing reveals on one side how it weakens a rope, the ability to rearange the fibre alingnmeant in the hinge, can make the same effect make the hinge stronger to task!

This all comes together by perfecting this machine then the rigging; both as maachines running best, tight and balanced. The dynamic range of expanded options, safe, predictable, positive motion and power pays high divedends. The diffrence from putting aside a $75 bike, and riding a $500 bike is not all in the name; much is in better mechanics; each piece placed as if by craftsman; to work superbly easily over a broader range.

:alien:

 

[ORclimber]

I use triangles mostly. Have been playing with the tapered triangle in the trees after being inspired by Treespyder. Pretty cool stuff. Also been messing with jack cuts, big face and high back cut, jump cut effect. Saw Steve Wiley do that one on a fir trunk, scared the crap out of me until I saw it work.

Have any of you fellers mastered dutchmans? If you want to fall a leaner 90 degrees from the lean and there's an obstacle on the lean side, could a dutchman kick the top straight?

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i got almost a 90degree kick 2x, rather stay conservative and not say quite 90. 1 other time a nice calculated diagonal sweep with tiered dutchman under a limb over a lamp post in some kind of 'emergency' deal where they didn't care about the lamp post, but it made it anyway. And the tree wasn't a huge oak that time.

Few failures (experiments in the clear), mostly due to not slapping obstruction in face hard enough,as most of my strategies are aimed at softer, slow falls, minimizing force; with hinges that are wide, not narrowed. This step or tiered dutchman takes maximum force on one side closing early.

The obstruction on lean side to correct to center (step dutchman), is a passive, or reflective force; it works not on its own, but what is thrown at it(like brakeforce). i think you need to slam the tree dangerously hard onto this tiered face for maximum effect. Also do so without cutting through hinge, so that it can taper across, creating a tapered hinge to add to the effect. Meaning the cutter has to stay in their watching hard and pullout racing forces they have maximized etc.

Too dangerous for me, said to be illegal etc. in other places; so that seems enough for me, i just try to work the softer end of the strategies; and steered off of this. i remember, still with awe, Mr. OxMan adding that he used a slanted cut, going into this; the best i could figure, he'd get the tree to barely make it to the top of the hinge then race down toward the face; kinda seemed to me like a ball barely able to crest a hill, then come suddenly the other side gaining speed, spilling down. And scared me more!

Also, most of my watching hinges has been taking this into the air, testing it rigging at all angles trying to calculate the common denominators, still with minimized force slow sweeps, wide faces-void of wedges and no more that kerf type dutchys. So as i cross compared, would fell with same imagery /strategies the final spar that i just had made dozens of hinges in over a house

Love wide face hinges, to give wide sweep for these efforts to be performed over, at least start out allowing that, can always cut it short!


:alien:

 

[Climber2]

I use the triangle hinge on almost every cut. Thought everyone did. Rope or no rope that's how I steer a tree when cutting from the ground. I also kerf cut the lean side and even nip at it to get the tree started. Sometimes slant the back cut for more hinge and even considered placing a small pebble in the notch of the lean side to lift it a little. Haven't tried it yet though. Of course I don't experiment when there's a chance of damaging anything.

Mike

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Here is how i see weakening a line by bending and applying that to making stronger steering hinges as related science.

Welcome Aboard Mike!

:alien:

 

[Climber2]

Spidy your blue fibre keeping it from twisting reminds me of when I was logging. I cut that fibre out by accident once and noticed how the tree twisted before it hit the ground. So I tried it on a tree that had codominant leads to keep them from splitting back to the butt. It worked! I could usually make the leads land flat enough that they didn't split by cutting one side of the hinge completely off after it was in the direction I wanted. Of course never try this when chance of damaging anything.

Later,
Mike

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Just as the fibres to opposite pull of lean have most leverage against lean the farther out you go, the side under lean has the most leveraged positioning to fight twist the other way from over correction.

This is really evident in tree in self torquing rig to twist. Maintaining the fibre in position to fight twist turns torque into turn, removing this fibre and self torquing causes flip on the hinge.

Just as the "Do Not Do/ Example Imagery Only" in picture.

All these examples are the same power: passive, restrictive self adjusting control from the most leveraged position to apply and recieve it. Whether hinge fibre or rope fibre it is the same. The most leverage restriction is 180 degrees from the lean's pull, softening that to center somewhat for steering into face. 180 degrees from lean is most leveraged, for that is widest arc of pull from pull of lean.

Similarily, when a twist is pulling, fibre farthest from twist is most leveraged.

 

[Stumper]

Ken, I think that your analysis of hinge operation is "spot on". Your arguments about fibers in tesion versus fiber in compression is also the key to understanding why (relative somewhat to species) thin hinges across the full face are more reliable than a centerpunched hinge with thick edges. (I use centerpunched hinges at times so I am not condemning them). In any piece of bending wood the belly wood (fibers on the inside of the bend) is compressed while the back wood (outside radius of the bend is in tension. In between the compressed fibers and the tensioned fibers there is a NEUTRAL PLANE- a point where wood is in neither tension or compression. The thicker the hinge/piece of wood the further the outermost tensioned fibers will be from the neutral plane -which means that they are stretched further around the radius of the bend. The further they are strecthed the closer they come to their failure point. Thick hinges are strong(they resist bending) but when the wood is forced to bend it begins to break and can fail suddenly. Thin but broad(across the face) hinges resist breaking. I suspect most of us have laid a tree over into a notch rather gently and had the tree just stop and hang on the closed face. Think about it. Was that hinge thick anywhere or was it a narrow strip across the full face? Understanding how wood fiber holds or fails can help us evaluate what we can or can't safely do. I will attempt things with a triangle hinge on species that are strong in tension (such as Hickory, White oak or Mulberry) that I would never even consider with a tension weak wood such as Chinaberry.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

StumperMan; i enjoy adding these common sense ideas that i haven't looked at to this scenario, both these here and privately. And Freaking ChinaBerry example is perfect, and well noted!

i truly beleive polishing this hinge pivot to a point of self enacting grace/balance, lends power to other adjsutments. Like any other machine. Many times, just allowing something to work is enough. Facing something and maximizing that which stands with you, while minimizing that which stands against you. That is what this slanting of the bar can do.

What we do is cut wood, this hinge deal at the point of cutting is really pivot-all to me. That is why i bring it up again. So much more control is so easily and naturaly available. Also, the hinge is the 'root' function for all else in what ever you are taking out. If you don't get it right, other adjustments don't carry their full power and promise, sometimes outrightly nullified.

To me akin to precision adjusting a carbureator when the lug nuts are all really loose,and vehicle wanders all over the road anyway dispelling it's force unfocused. Heck giving it more power, might get power aimed in wrong direction etc.

Especially all this hinging would be important if a tree was leaning back wards to 10:30-12:00)(12:00/6:00 vertical)to throw to 3:00 (ground in front), with a lean to the SW, sending it to the N. Definately a time for positive mechanics, and leverage. Definately, want the tapered hinge carring as much of the off balance as possible,and all effort going to directing tree positievely home. Especially doing same with topping in tree. Or maybe top is jsut straight up, still want the most positive action off me, if off balance; give whatever aid to off balance hinge can offer, so more of directing pull is off of me and not fighting off balance in top! Same thing can help a rig have more power and purpose.

i also beleive in forcing stronger hinges, by pulling the spar earlier than it would with it's leveraged load. So, once again with this technique, if spar pulls are off balance, there is a fight going on inside, and how much power and purpose can be added with a forced thicker hinge is buffered, perhaps to the point of thinking it doesn't work.....

Nothing works half as well off balanced. When pulling with a line, i still get the tapered hinge to carry some of the OffSide Lean, so that more of the rope pulling effort, goes into drawing the tree forward, not correcting what the hinge could correct on it's own. Take that right into the tree, make the hinge strategy carry more off the weight, and line more of the direction, till line gradually takes it all.

Dent's book put these terms of 'Causation' (ie. responsibility, mechancial instruction), and 'Mechanical Analysis' (pre-planning and forensics)in this refrence for me. i never forgot them as i brought this from felling to rigging. The true test of something as a pervailing principal, is how wide it carries through other similar forms. i beleive these are the principals; simple and common sensible if you watch for them that you can trust and dial in to. His principals work with this explanation, and in the air as i fought to understand applying them there. i give you him, and thank him for being 'spot on' and not leading me astray, even extending them up where he didn't go, they tested out at every angle.



:alien: