Stubs on take down of softwood?

[Marquis]

Hey guys,
Curious to know what most of you do when you are taking down a softwood, primarily spruce or fir. Up here, that is about 70% of the species that I take down. When climbing with spikes, do you leave any kind of stub as you limb on the way up, to grab, use for footing, prevent flipline slipage. Average DBH is probably around 15", so you can imagine, when getting a bit up the tree, there isn't much width or space to get your spikes in and prevent yourself from swinging to the side. Feet end up being quite close together. Any tips would be great. Have had good luck with leaving a small 3-4" stub. I clean it up as I go down, just makes more cuts though.

 

[scott t]

i always cut my stubs but i only use pole spurs work great in the small stuff imo

 

[Marquis]

Does it help keep you from going side to side?

 

[scott t]

for sure it gives you better speed and balance i will never ever in my life use another pair of tree spurs i use the bashlin/pole spur the are light weight and nice imo

 

[southsoundtree]

I use pole spurs on everything. I use a choked climbline, too. These will both help with balance.

Using a 540 degree flipline wrap will both give fall arrest and more balance.

NO STUBS. I curse stubs. They snag rigging, fliplines, and if you fall into one, it'll hurt a lot.

Good technique will come with practice. Good stability will come from good technique.

Stubs are useful for rigging as a natural crotch, and also as a friction point. Rather than have a groundman control the limb down, I can do it more easily and read my own mind as to what I want by taking a wrap or two on a stub. This allow the groundman to be free to do other things until the branch is on the ground, ready to be untied/ unclipped.
Then, when I know that I'm done with the stub's usefulness. I cut it somewhat flush, unless I'm on a sappy tree like pine, then I'll do more of a branch collar cut.


There is a time and place for pole spikes, no spikes, and tree spikes in different removals, and different trees. In my experience,they are in that particular order in, in regards to frequency of use in removals. It will be different for each removal/ climber combo.



Just wanted to expand on my reasoning.

 

[jomoco]

Any veteran climber without both pole and tree gaffs, is a little green still in my opinion.

I easily spend 90 percent of my time wearing pole gaffs to remove trees, but that other 10 percent of my time spent on tree gaffs would be downright dangerous and somewhat comical if attempted with pole gaffs.

jomoco

 

[joesawer]

I hate leaving goat horns on a stub, they get in the way, catch everything on the way down. They hurt when you hit them when you cut out a little bit.
BUT when they make it safer for you to work by all means leave them! They make useful foot holds and are necessary for rigging some times. But please don't over use them. A tree full of stubs is a sure sign of a poor climber.

 

[tree md]

I have pole gaffs and tree gaffs as well. I very rarely use the tree gaffs anymore. Only time I ever really use them anymore is when I am doing a removal on a large Cottonwood.

Only time I ever leave a stub is if I want to sling my climbing rope over it and come down.

 

[lego1970]

If I'm having to rope a bunch a limbs out I don't leave stubs so that the limbs or line doesn't get hung up when lowering, otherwise I like stubs to stand on. On the skinny stuff I like to double wrap my buck strap around the trunk and that seems to help quite a bit with the wobbles. While I've never tried it before, I like the idea of using pole gaffs (as mentioned above) instead of tree gaffs. I can see how with that would help keep your feet from wobbling so much.

 

[Blakesmaster]

I only leave stubs on trim jobs.

When it comes to spruces I clean it up till I start getting to the top. As I keep cutting branches off I'm deciding exactly where to take the top. If I can bomb the top out, a stub or two to stand on can add a lot of comfort and security as I move to notch it and backcut. If I'm rigging the top ( natural crotch ) I'll use one or two of the stubs to butt hitch it out. Be careful you don't get impaled when/if she locks up on you. Butt yeah, make sure anything that might catch a limb or rope or whatever below you is removed. Nothing worse than climbing down to un-hang something and then back up.

 

[tree md]

When it comes to spruces I clean it up till I start getting to the top. As I keep cutting branches off I'm deciding exactly where to take the top. If I can bomb the top out, a stub or two to stand on can add a lot of comfort and security as I move to notch it and backcut. If I'm rigging the top ( natural crotch ) I'll use one or two of the stubs to butt hitch it out. Be careful you don't get impaled when/if she locks up on you. Butt yeah, make sure anything that might catch a limb or rope or whatever below you is removed. Nothing worse than climbing down to un-hang something and then back up.

Yep, I forgot about hanging tops with a natural crotch. I use loop runners and my block a lot of the time now but will still use a stub to hang a top when it is quick and handy.

 

[BlackenedTimber]

The only time I leave stubs on a removal is for rigging, and on softwoods, I use a sling and block which I move with me up the spar as I need it. I don't like rigging to stubs on softwood because I don't get that warm-n-fuzzy feeling about them holding if there is an accidental shockload. Hardwoods are another story, and I tend to utilize alot of stubs and natural-crotch rigging on hardwood removals. For trimming I will leave stubs to rig from and to stand on, cleaning up the cuts as I descend.

As others have suggested, taking a wrap with your lanyard can eliminate side-to-side swaying when you get up near the tops of the skinny bastids. I am 265 and top-heavy, and I take a wrap up top when needed.

As for pole spurs, I have never tried them in a tree, but I can see how they can be helpful in certain trees. I'm gonna have to "borrow" a pair of Bashlins from my old man the next time I am up at the farm and try them out on a removal. I can see the conversation now... "you're not getting my bleepity bleepin Bashlins! Take a pair of the bleepin Klein's off of one of the trucks! Stay the bleepin bleepity bleep bleep bleepin bleepity bleep away from my bleepin Bashlins!!!" ... "OK, thanks Dad"... And I "borrow" the Bashlins anyway...

My Dad has a way with words.

T

 

[scott t]

the only time they are bad that i have noticed are big barked cottonwoods but i still use them on those to. a dash harder but you can manage lol and as far as kliens go i have tryied them and just cant get the hang cut out everytime and chew up my knuckles lol

 

[tree md]

The only time I leave stubs on a removal is for rigging, and on softwoods, I use a sling and block which I move with me up the spar as I need it. I don't like rigging to stubs on softwood because I don't get that warm-n-fuzzy feeling about them holding if there is an accidental shockload. Hardwoods are another story, and I tend to utilize alot of stubs and natural-crotch rigging on hardwood removals. For trimming I will leave stubs to rig from and to stand on, cleaning up the cuts as I descend.

As others have suggested, taking a wrap with your lanyard can eliminate side-to-side swaying when you get up near the tops of the skinny bastids. I am 265 and top-heavy, and I take a wrap up top when needed.

As for pole spurs, I have never tried them in a tree, but I can see how they can be helpful in certain trees. I'm gonna have to "borrow" a pair of Bashlins from my old man the next time I am up at the farm and try them out on a removal. I can see the conversation now... "you're not getting my bleepity bleepin Bashlins! Take a pair of the bleepin Klein's off of one of the trucks! Stay the bleepin bleepity bleep bleep bleepin bleepity bleep away from my bleepin Bashlins!!!" ... "OK, thanks Dad"... And I "borrow" the Bashlins anyway...

My Dad has a way with words.

T

We actually used to call them pine spikes for straight gaffs and hardwood spikes for the offset gaffs.

I learned on a set of Klien's and used them for years. I loved them but my aluminum Bashlins rock the house. My alternative is a set of Buckingham tree gaffs that kill my feet now that I am used to the Bashlins. Nice to have when I got a big old, furrow barked Cottonwood tho.

 

[Marquis]

Thanks for all the tips guys, greatly appreciated. Snow will be closing me up here pretty soon anyway.