Stump Grinder justification

[swyman]

I currently do not have a grinder but have offered the service and had a fellow doing them for me. That is the problem, you have a guy tell you "yea, yea I'll do all your stumps" only to have the HO calling me "when is the stump guy going to come and do my stump?" I take that as negative feedback and do not want that image. I want my customers to be totally satisfied and would like to become a complete service but what kind of return on invesment should I expect? I don't know how to charge for stumps. How do you typically charge for the service? To put in perspective, I took down a large Maple, about 42" within inches from a deck and of course my grinder guy did not return my customers calls so he had one of the biggest outfits in the area grind it. He said they charged him $160. That was a large stump and the had to sweep a lot wider to clean it all up. This seems cheap to me. I thought about getting a $15k used self propelled but now possibly a 50hp range tow behind as they are much cheaper and should be very fast and if guys are doing them that cheap it would take a lot of stumps to pay off a $15k machine. Or am I better off not doing them at all? The only thing I feel about that is it would be more of a pain for the HO because not only will he have to call me to do the job, when it's complete he will have to find another person to call which maybe could cost me some jobs. What's the best way to charge? They must be justifiable as there are guys that only do stumps, do I need to look longer term for a return on investment?

 

[Toddppm]

One stop shop for the customer. You should be getting at least as much per man to grind stumps as you do per man for any other kind of tree work. If not more.

 

[swyman]

One stop shop for the customer. You should be getting at least as much per man to grind stumps as you do per man for any other kind of tree work. If not more.

I did not think of it that way. I know everyone always asks "how much to do the stump" and just could not give them a honest answer so would just tell them that I did not know and they would have to negotiate with they guy when he came to look at it. I really don't like doing business that way, does not seem very professional in my eyes but I am not going to bs'em.

 

[2treeornot2tree]

I try to get around $5 a inch of the diameter at the largest part.

 

[beastmaster]

I don't think of stump grinding in its self as a money maker, but most removals the HO is going to want the stump ground, and its the whole package that often seals the deal.
As nice as it is using a self propelled, all hydraulic stump grinder that cost 15000 +, You can get a manual one(it don't move unless you do)for a lot less $$ that'll grind all but the biggest stump for half that price.

 

[superjunior]

The return on a grinder is fairly slow, grinders aren't cheap. I bought both my machines used. The big tow behind with 75horse diesel I paid 14k and the little self propelled was 6k - both with 600 hrs. Some guys charge by the inch which makes pricing pretty strait forward. I usually charge by how long the stump will take, accesability and which machine I will use. If I have a 30 inch stump to grind right off the driveway its a 15 min gig with the big machine. Now that same size stump through a gate in the back yard with the little guy I'm probably looking at at least one hour, so charge accordingly.

Another option you might want to consider is just renting one for a day. Get a days worth of grinding lined up and rent a machine for an 8 hr day, at least you can keep your work in house and not rely on someone else. Sometimes when I get a bunch of really big stumps that's too much for the little machine to handle and I can't get the tow behind to them I'll rent a track grinder. I think its 450$ for an 8 hr day and well worth it. Again you just got to charge accordingly.

 

[swyman]

I don't think of stump grinding in its self as a money maker, but most removals the HO is going to want the stump ground, and its the whole package that often seals the deal.
As nice as it is using a self propelled, all hydraulic stump grinder that cost 15000 +, You can get a manual one(it don't move unless you do)for a lot less $$ that'll grind all but the biggest stump for half that price.

Just missed a 665B on ebay that looked like a good deal and I didn't pull the trigger because I am debating with myself but I agree with you and need to get past and just buy one. I have to be able to offer a complete service to get where I want to be. The older I get the more conservative I get. 10 years ago I would not have hesitated but now I have learned to think before acting. Keeping my overhead low is the key for me now. I think it will help me make it in the end. There are a lot of tree guys in this area and are working cheaper everyday. I want to be able to make a profit instead of payments and that should keep me around when they have to sell.

 

[swyman]

The return on a grinder is fairly slow, grinders aren't cheap. I bought both my machines used. The big tow behind with 75horse diesel I paid 14k and the little self propelled was 6k - both with 600 hrs. Some guys charge by the inch which makes pricing pretty strait forward. I usually charge by how long the stump will take, accesability and which machine I will use. If I have a 30 inch stump to grind right off the driveway its a 15 min gig with the big machine. Now that same size stump through a gate in the back yard with the little guy I'm probably looking at at least one hour, so charge accordingly.

Another option you might want to consider is just renting one for a day. Get a days worth of grinding lined up and rent a machine for an 8 hr day, at least you can keep your work in house and not rely on someone else. Sometimes when I get a bunch of really big stumps that's too much for the little machine to handle and I can't get the tow behind to them I'll rent a track grinder. I think its 450$ for an 8 hr day and well worth it. Again you just got to charge accordingly.

I tried renting and the biggest machine I could find was a 252. It was brand new and $350 a day. Machine was new but teeth were not that great and I did it to satisfy my customers needs. Did 4 stumps, covered the rental cost and ate the fuel/time. Not a practice I want to keep doing but I do want a happy HO.

 

[superjunior]

but I do want a happy HO.

everybody wants a happy ho lol:msp_smile:

The 630b is a decent machine, was the first one we ever had. 3 guys could push it across a yard with some effort, but we also had spikes that connected to the tongue. you'd spike them into the ground then extend forward to " inchworm" your way across the yard. Took forever but it worked

 

[sgreanbeans]

I tried renting and the biggest machine I could find was a 252. It was brand new and $350 a day. Machine was new but teeth were not that great and I did it to satisfy my customers needs. Did 4 stumps, covered the rental cost and ate the fuel/time. Not a practice I want to keep doing but I do want a happy HO.

WOW! 350 A DAY! I rent a 252, cost 160.50 a day. That sucks they charge that much.
I stack up the stumps like SJ said. I always offer the package, grinding,cleaning and filling with graded top soil and then seed, sometimes straw on the seed. If I stayed here I would buy one, this year. I like the Carltons I often get calls for stumps only, but they want the done right away, I cant compete with the other guys when they have one in the shop that they could grab and go. I would have to mark in the price of the rental and I would never get a job. So I stack them. We will go out and grind them all. Then I come back and clean and fill. I know its not the best way, but most people seem to be fine with it. I prefer the self propelled over the hitch, if I had to choose. More access than the tow behind, but those tow behinds can make real quick work of a big stump. This local farmer had this huge, really old Vermeer years ago, just used it around on the farm. Thing had to be from the 50's or when ever they first made them! Looked like a relic, but ran awesome. He was grinding one when I meet him. That thing blasted a massive stump, think it was a cottonwood. I never seen anything like it, he was done so fast, taking huge swipes, the thing never slowed at all, just tore right thru it.

 

[deevo]

I currently do not have a grinder but have offered the service and had a fellow doing them for me. That is the problem, you have a guy tell you "yea, yea I'll do all your stumps" only to have the HO calling me "when is the stump guy going to come and do my stump?" I take that as negative feedback and do not want that image. I want my customers to be totally satisfied and would like to become a complete service but what kind of return on invesment should I expect? I don't know how to charge for stumps. How do you typically charge for the service? To put in perspective, I took down a large Maple, about 42" within inches from a deck and of course my grinder guy did not return my customers calls so he had one of the biggest outfits in the area grind it. He said they charged him $160. That was a large stump and the had to sweep a lot wider to clean it all up. This seems cheap to me. I thought about getting a $15k used self propelled but now possibly a 50hp range tow behind as they are much cheaper and should be very fast and if guys are doing them that cheap it would take a lot of stumps to pay off a $15k machine. Or am I better off not doing them at all? The only thing I feel about that is it would be more of a pain for the HO because not only will he have to call me to do the job, when it's complete he will have to find another person to call which maybe could cost me some jobs. What's the best way to charge? They must be justifiable as there are guys that only do stumps, do I need to look longer term for a return on investment?

I just recently bought one as well, I parted ways with the person I was working with who the stumper was his. I got a ton of calls last year for stumps. Also I hate subbing things out so had to have one for this year. It's good you can do the whole 9 yards, and offer a total service like I think you are thinking. It's a good tool when bidding on the jobs if the next guy who doesn't have a stumper, you could tell the HO we can do the tree for this much and give them a good deal on the stump if you are awarded the job. I did that approach a lot the last few years and sealed the deal almost every time! I bought a pretty much brand new SC252, and with good teeth I can tackle almost every stump around here. It's up to you what you are going to get, but most of my stump jobs are in back yards and hard to access places, so I went with a self propelled. Whatever you do, look around (a lot) there are good deals out there, get one with lows hours if you can. I got mine off ebay.

 

[OLD MAN GRINDER]

I work with 3 diff tree services, i usually meet them on the job and give a
price on the stumps, i will not bid on a stump w/o seeing it, got burnt too
many times,,,the stump u mentioned in first post would probably have been
a 150.00 stump, depending on how far i would have to run the roots, if u
get a grinder i would suggest a used 252, easy to maintain and will do any
size stump, just a little longer on the big ones..
I figure my charge by looking at the stump, figure how long it will take and
then multiply by what i need to make an hour and give a price, i would stay
away from a tow behind, just too much trouble imo...
I have not had any complaints from the tree services i work with, i usually can
get the stump within 1-2 days, and that will satisy most HO...

Good luck..

Bob..

 

[Tree Pig]

Move to Ct Ill show you stump grinding justification... this spring you could pay off a new grinder in a month.

 

[swyman]

I work with 3 diff tree services, i usually meet them on the job and give a
price on the stumps, i will not bid on a stump w/o seeing it, got burnt too
many times,,,the stump u mentioned in first post would probably have been
a 150.00 stump, depending on how far i would have to run the roots, if u
get a grinder i would suggest a used 252, easy to maintain and will do any
size stump, just a little longer on the big ones..
I figure my charge by looking at the stump, figure how long it will take and
then multiply by what i need to make an hour and give a price, i would stay
away from a tow behind, just too much trouble imo...
I have not had any complaints from the tree services i work with, i usually can
get the stump within 1-2 days, and that will satisy most HO...

Good luck..

Bob..

Wish I had a guy like you in the area that I could count on and I would not worry about getting a grinder. It is fun though.

 

[Kottonwood]

I used to sub my stumps to a good stump guy. It was great for the big stumps but I hated having him come out for all the smaller (less that 25") ones. I got an Alpine Magnum to do the small ones and that machine blew my away. I bought a used one from Keith at alpine machine..... got it for like 3500. Once you get the hang of that thing it is awesome. The first day with it I figured I would try to see what it was made of... me and my groundman ground two 40"+ walnut stumps, two 40" plus pondo pines, and a 50"+ elm stump with big surface roots. My groundie loves that thing too, says his ideal day would be firing it up at nine and turning it off at five.

I price stumps at 6-8 an inch with the magnum, on small or hard to access stumps. Most stumps go for four or so an inch, I figure they're paying for the added convenience. I once made 20 an inch with it, ground 30" a poplar stump over 3 feet down where they built a raised patio around it and planted a new tree there.... couldn't have done that with anything other than the magnum.

I recently bought a stump slayer (mini skid attached 30HP grinder) from scott (arborpro). I only got it cuz I just did a big project for a mobile home park where I removed 20 large cottonwoods and siberian elms..... that grinder has already paid for itself.

I am really happy to have the new grinder but the Alpine magnum is priceless and I will never own a tree service and not have one.

 

[TimberMcPherson]

I only do them by the hour, charge double a normal man hour, and give people an estimate. the main issues with the stumps I do is access and proximity to other objects.
I also have a stumpmaster (what the alpine magnum was copied from). Im not out to do big stumps, but got sick of not being able to rely on contractors.

 

[swyman]

I work with 3 diff tree services, i usually meet them on the job and give a
price on the stumps, i will not bid on a stump w/o seeing it, got burnt too
many times,,,the stump u mentioned in first post would probably have been
a 150.00 stump, depending on how far i would have to run the roots, if u
get a grinder i would suggest a used 252, easy to maintain and will do any
size stump, just a little longer on the big ones..
I figure my charge by looking at the stump, figure how long it will take and
then multiply by what i need to make an hour and give a price, i would stay
away from a tow behind, just too much trouble imo...
I have not had any complaints from the tree services i work with, i usually can
get the stump within 1-2 days, and that will satisy most HO...

Good luck..

Bob..

How much more productive would a 352 be?

 

[hunthawkdog]

stumps

I wish i could just leave it to the senior citizens the only good part of havin one is being full service and not waiting on some oldtimer to get out of coffe club to go grind your stump I got a 140 stump contract this summer thought I realy wanted it but found out I didnt I belong in the air not messin with stumps and haulin dirt this is a tree service not lawn care . But i do make some easy money of it I bought a 1980 big wheel 2k It paid for itshelf quik when the wisconsen die I m gonna put a 350 on it unless they let me start usin tnt

 

[hunthawkdog]

sorry

no disrespect intended for the old timers that blazed the path

 

[swyman]

I wish i could just leave it to the senior citizens the only good part of havin one is being full service and not waiting on some oldtimer to get out of coffe club to go grind your stump I got a 140 stump contract this summer thought I realy wanted it but found out I didnt I belong in the air not messin with stumps and haulin dirt this is a tree service not lawn care . But i do make some easy money of it I bought a 1980 big wheel 2k It paid for itshelf quik when the wisconsen die I m gonna put a 350 on it unless they let me start usin tnt

Have some 8mm of my grandfather and great grandfather blowing up stumps with tnt. I bought the old farm house my great grandpa re-wired in 1942. My family did not throw anything away, while cleaning out the barn we found a wooden box that said Red Diamond Dynomite! In the kitchen for display now, to bad it was empty:msp_sad: