Stump guys, how do you get larger contracts?
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Mowingman
ArboristSite Guru
I have not seem any demand for that type of work from our local power companies or DOT. The power companies here, contract out the tree removal and trimming, but almost never have the stumps removed or ground out. The DOT cuts some trees as needed along the highways, but they usually dig out the stumps with a backhoe. Our City Parks Dept. takes out a lot of trees, but they have their own stump grinder. So there is no work there either.
My only big production jobs have come from referals from a local tree service company. They refer all their stump work to me, and I haver gotten some pretty big jobs from one of our local universitys through their referals.
The best source of big work around here, is clearing land for ranchers or developers. I have been clearing land for one local landowner now for almost two years. This project has covered about 1000 acres to date. I grind stumps for them by the hour, and get about 30 hours of grinding in every other week. I currently have a backlog of two or three weeks of grinding to do for them right now. This is the largest job i have had in my 4 years of stump grinding.
There just does not seem to be a lot of big jobs available in the stump grinding busness. When this project ends, I will probably be back to just on and off again work. I think I really have been lucky to be this busy.
Jeff
My only big production jobs have come from referals from a local tree service company. They refer all their stump work to me, and I haver gotten some pretty big jobs from one of our local universitys through their referals.
The best source of big work around here, is clearing land for ranchers or developers. I have been clearing land for one local landowner now for almost two years. This project has covered about 1000 acres to date. I grind stumps for them by the hour, and get about 30 hours of grinding in every other week. I currently have a backlog of two or three weeks of grinding to do for them right now. This is the largest job i have had in my 4 years of stump grinding.
There just does not seem to be a lot of big jobs available in the stump grinding busness. When this project ends, I will probably be back to just on and off again work. I think I really have been lucky to be this busy.
Jeff
I have a hard time figuring out what to charge for that kind of big job work, I had a client clear some land and he wanted me to remove about 60 stumps spread over 5 acres, but he wanted the quote up front.
If I may ask, what do you try to get for an hourly if you need to bid it that way?
If I may ask, what do you try to get for an hourly if you need to bid it that way?
Mowingman
ArboristSite Guru
When I do small, (one, or two stumps), jobs for folks, I price the work by the stump size, and I try to get about $175 - $200/hr. On big, (multiple stump) jobs, I usually bid the work by the hour, and shoot for $125.00 - $150.00/hr.
On the big clearing job I currently have, I am getting $100.00/hr. and the customer furnishes all the diesel for the grinder. While this might seem a little cheap, I knew I could count on a couple of years worth of work, so I gave then a good rate.
My minimum to do any job within the city limits, is $75.00. If I have to go outside of town any distance, the minimum goes up to $100.00.
Jeff
On the big clearing job I currently have, I am getting $100.00/hr. and the customer furnishes all the diesel for the grinder. While this might seem a little cheap, I knew I could count on a couple of years worth of work, so I gave then a good rate.
My minimum to do any job within the city limits, is $75.00. If I have to go outside of town any distance, the minimum goes up to $100.00.
Jeff
gr8scott72
Addicted to ArboristSite
I bid large jobs 1 of 2 ways. Either by the hour or by the stump. If I do it by the stump, I count and mark each stump and get that number agreed on up front. I've been bit a few times because of that. Didn't count them and ended up being WAY more than estimated. Price per stump depends on what the stumps are and how large on average.
By the hour, $100 per hour with 60 hp track grinder is a fair price to me. (I average $150 per hour nomally.)
gr8scott72
Addicted to ArboristSite
So, what grinders you got now? You have the Alpine right? and a small Rayco? or was it a vermeer?
Still the magnum and the Super Jr. So far I have not lost many jobs due to stumps being to big, one this year in fact. Most of my work is under 30".
With that being said if I found a decent deal on a larger machine I may take it to pursue larger jobs.
With that being said if I found a decent deal on a larger machine I may take it to pursue larger jobs.
gr8scott72
Addicted to ArboristSite
When I had my super jr, I was only able to average about $75 per hour as the stump just took that much longer. I've basically doubled my machine-per-hour revenue.
Where I live we just dont have that many large stumps, the biggest trees were taken years ago when these endless sub divisions were built, now I am dealing with 15 year old trees...perfect for me.
The local big tree co has an RG-50 I think so he is not leaving any money on the table for me to pick up, but so far this year out of all the calls I have had only one of them was turned down due to size. Bradford pears and pine trees are easy money, if I actually figure those out I can hit well over $100 per/hr.
A bigger machine would be a luxury though, and I would not turn that away if a "deal" pops up, then I could chase after some other tree company's for work without worry about time investment.
ibadvanced
ArboristSite Lurker
Scott --you mean to tell me you went from 75.00 an hour with the small rayco to just 150 an hour with the 7015. I have a 7015 and it grinds at least 5 times faster than the super jr. I average about 300 an hour with my 7015. Sounds like the your customers are making out like bandits.
gr8scott72
Addicted to ArboristSite
I'm getting tired of justifying my pricing on this site. I know what I can charge and I also know that when I charge more, I don't get the job. I keep perfect records of how much I make. Last time I looked at it, it was $157 per machine hour.
If you can get $300 per hour, you are either doing very well or haven't figured out how to run that machine to its full potential.
One other point to the differences between the two machines is that when I had the Rayco, I didn't get a lot of large stumps or large stump jobs. Just wasn't practical to be grinding on one stump for 5 hours for $150. Now, I CAN do that stump in 30 minutes and am happy with $150. But, that does reduce my dollars per hour by taking jobs like that.
With the Rayco, I was doing it part time and was pretty selective on the stumps I did AND they were all small jobs that paid good.
I think if I lost 3 or 4 stumps in a season due to them being really large I would be concerned about lost income and buy a larger machine. I just dont get the calls to justify the debt load, I try to run debt free for the most part.
Now, if I had a bunch of calls on 40" wide stumps or larger it would beat my machine (and me) to death and it would not be worth standing in the sun all day to make $150 on a stump. But, as it is my machine has not ran for more than 45 minutes on a single stump yet, and that was a rarity.
I am getting more calls from a tree co. that used to use a guy with a tow behind, but people with high end houses dont want a truck in the yard, and that tow behind can forget about back yards. With the Alpine and my Jr. I can be a stump ninja...
Now, if I had a bunch of calls on 40" wide stumps or larger it would beat my machine (and me) to death and it would not be worth standing in the sun all day to make $150 on a stump. But, as it is my machine has not ran for more than 45 minutes on a single stump yet, and that was a rarity.
I am getting more calls from a tree co. that used to use a guy with a tow behind, but people with high end houses dont want a truck in the yard, and that tow behind can forget about back yards. With the Alpine and my Jr. I can be a stump ninja...
Oly's Stump
ArboristSite Operative
I live on the south Wisconsin / north Illinois border. Most of my work is in S/E Wisconsin. I'm sure that stump grinding rates differ throughout the USA. I can tell you that stump grinding rates are twice as much in N/E Illinois as they are in S/E Wisconsin. Most suburbs of Chicago pay much better for landscaping, tree service, ect. I would not even survive in northern Wisconsin in the stump grinding business in a small town (community). Those hillbillies don't care if they have a stump in their yard and they sure would not pay anything to have it removed.
stump grinder
ArboristSite Member
I had a county highway department contract for 3 years when I first started out. I was glad to have it at the time. The problem was that they bid the contract out by the hour and I had to compete with what they were getting at the current time. Well, I won the contract and ended up working for $65/ hour. I did not get paid driving to the highway department and then home. It was 40 miles each way, so almost 2 hours. It was ok until the gas prices started going up. Working on the side of the road is what was needed to clear stumps so that the plows would not hit them in the winter. These work conditions suck. Not great working with traffic so close to you. I usually make almost twice the amount doing non contract work. Production is not where it is at, good marketing is what is needed. I work a full time job making paper and the stump grinding has turned into a second full time job from the end of March until late November. I do close to 100 jobs per year. Marketing, word of mouth and make friends with the tree guys! They can help you tremendously. If they are busy they don't have time for stumping. As far as utility companies go, I did one job for the electric utility. They cut a tree down on a guy while he was on vacation. He got mad and the company had me grind the stump, clean the mess, bring dirt and plant a new tree. I am in as a vendor anyways. That job was at a per inch base. Also, treat everyone the same on pricing. I charge the middle class guy the same as I do the very well off. People talk and your reputation and referals will make or break you. Production = putting yourself on sale.
It sounds to me like you are doing great. If I wanted to (or is that too or two) I could average $480/hr.
It would be easy - One $40 stump in 5 minutes = 12 stumps/hour 12*$40 = $480/hour.
The problem with this BS is staying busy. If I am staying busy and averaging $100/hour I'm happy. Sure I get the $40 5 minute job, but not every time.
Different markets support different rates. Different neighborhoods even support different rates. Even stump location on the property can determine the rate, not to mention accessibility.
Sounds to me you are keeping great records and doing fine. The key is to keep good records and know where your minimum is and don't get sucked down below it for a big job or a good customer who gives you lots of business (large tree services feeding you the leads.) With good records you can easily justify your pricing.
Now, if Bill would hit, everything would change!!!
I get $40 five minute stumps quite often. Or at least what would be a $40 one if I was already there. I have a $70 minimum. The majority of the stump jobs I do I spend more time driving to and from the job than grinding the stump. Im curious, are you guys including drive time when you're talking hours and rates?
gr8scott72
Addicted to ArboristSite
My $150 per hour is just machine hours but I do take into account how far I have to drive.
Did a $150 job today. It was 1 hour of grinding buy about 1 hour of driving each way. So, all said and done, that was a $50 per hour job.
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