Tale of Two Brothers

[3fordasho]

I have a Drolet Tundra heating 3400 sq ft about 20mn from Mankato, MN. It handles the house just fine down to about 10F on 3 burn cycles per day. I figure 75lbs of wood per day. A cord should last 41 days. 5-6 cords will cover it, including the times below 10F when I'll sometimes fire up a woodstove installed in the fireplace to supplement the Tundra. The Tundra is in the basement so radiant heat stays in conditioned space and helps heat the house. A good wood furnace install is very dependent on proper tie into the duct system, lots of places to loose efficiency here. Now if the Ashley has the newer EPA firebox, dry wood is not only important, it's a must have. My Tundra just plain won't put out the heat on higher moisture content wood. With wet-ish wood you won't get secondary burn in the firebox with the air cut back like it should be. As a result to get heat you must burn with the air opened up and most of the heat is going up the chimney with all the water in the wood. As far as comparison to the outside boiler, the new wood boilers pretty much require dry wood now as well. (the EPA approved versions anyway) -

 

[jfriesner]

I have a Drolet Tundra heating 3400 sq ft about 20mn from Mankato, MN. It handles the house just fine down to about 10F on 3 burn cycles per day. I figure 75lbs of wood per day. A cord should last 41 days. 5-6 cords will cover it, including the times below 10F when I'll sometimes fire up a woodstove installed in the fireplace to supplement the Tundra. The Tundra is in the basement so radiant heat stays in conditioned space and helps heat the house. A good wood furnace install is very dependent on proper tie into the duct system, lots of places to loose efficiency here. Now if the Ashley has the newer EPA firebox, dry wood is not only important, it's a must have. My Tundra just plain won't put out the heat on higher moisture content wood. With wet-ish wood you won't get secondary burn in the firebox with the air cut back like it should be. As a result to get heat you must burn with the air opened up and most of the heat is going up the chimney with all the water in the wood. As far as comparison to the outside boiler, the new wood boilers pretty much require dry wood now as well. (the EPA approved versions anyway) -

Nailed it! I think my bro was assuming the new stove would work just like the old one but with the ability to hook up to duct work. It is a newer EPA stove. He just wasn’t expecting it to be so finicky and now he’s spending time/money he was hoping to save. And I think the regret is going OWB route would be more wood to cut but not picky and the mess moving to the garage wasn’t as wonderful as he imagined it would be.

 

[3fordasho]

Nailed it! I think my bro was assuming the new stove would work just like the old one but with the ability to hook up to duct work. It is a newer EPA stove. He just wasn’t expecting it to be so finicky and now he’s spending time/money he was hoping to save. And I think the regret is going OWB route would be more wood to cut but not picky and the mess moving to the garage wasn’t as wonderful as he imagined it would be.

Is the wood furnace pulling return air from the heated part of the house or from the colder garage? I have a 2nd Tundra that heats my shop and have noticed it's not as effective because it's working with 40F return air vs the 68F return air the house unit is working with. These wood furnaces can be tricky beasts as everyone's install is different. The shop furnace return air flows across a cold concrete slab that never really heats up, I really need to duct that up off the floor so the temp rise across the heat exchanger is better. I only mentioned it in case your brothers is set up in a similar fashion.

 

[jfriesner]

Is the wood furnace pulling return air from the heated part of the house or from the colder garage? I have a 2nd Tundra that heats my shop and have noticed it's not as effective because it's working with 40F return air vs the 68F return air the house unit is working with. These wood furnaces can be tricky beasts as everyone's install is different.

He is pulling from the house. There is a vent cover he can remove to dump warm air in the garage if he wants more then just the ambient heat off the furnace. I think the whole issue is the wood isn’t as dry as he thought and the stove is way pickier then he thought.

 

[alleyyooper]

My friend in the UP is in a high lake effect snow area. His house also didn't have a basement so installed a OWB because propane cost was killing any chance of putting any money away for retirement.
told me the first winter he nearly stopped useing it and finish the winter with propane. said it was a real eye opener to get up at 4:30 AM to fill the firnace and find a 5 foot snow drift between the burner and wood stack. the tractor in the unheated non electric pole barn also was giving him a hard time starting.
Said that was the last of that crap so made a pole barn 24x32 pole barn style shed arond rthe wood burner so he could store wood in it and park the tractor in the heat and beable to plug it into electric so it was start in below and more below zero temps. He got 90% of the lumber for the barn freom a local saw mill in exchange for logs he took to them.
figures with the orginal wood burner and the new building taller chimney he as almost $15,000 in makeing heat for his house.

Al

 

[laynes69]

Two of our friends are burning close to a cord a week in the subzero weather we've been having in their OWB's. They are saving a ton over burning LP or natural gas, however it's a fu time job to keep up. Our indoor epa furnace however burns a tiny fraction of the wood they are burning. We burn 4 to 5 cord a year, and they burn around 20 cord or more. Before we updated to a epa model, we burned 8-12 cord a year. It was a struggle keeping up with wood, where now I can cut at my leisure. Wood for them however is a full time job. An OWB just wasn't for us.

 

[jfriesner]

My friend in the UP is in a high lake effect snow area. His house also didn't have a basement so installed a OWB because propane cost was killing any chance of putting any money away for retirement.
told me the first winter he nearly stopped useing it and finish the winter with propane. said it was a real eye opener to get up at 4:30 AM to fill the firnace and find a 5 foot snow drift between the burner and wood stack. the tractor in the unheated non electric pole barn also was giving him a hard time starting.
Said that was the last of that crap so made a pole barn 24x32 pole barn style shed arond rthe wood burner so he could store wood in it and park the tractor in the heat and beable to plug it into electric so it was start in below and more below zero temps. He got 90% of the lumber for the barn freom a local saw mill in exchange for logs he took to them.
figures with the orginal wood burner and the new building taller chimney he as almost $15,000 in makeing heat for his house.

Al

Well he’s got 15k into heating his house and he’s got a 24x32 shed. That’s pretty good! Boilers are like trucks. I can go spend 90k on a new truck or 9k on one that functions the same just doesn’t look as cool. A boiler doesn’t have to cost an arm and leg. I got mine, refurbed it, and hooked it up for around $3k. And I love walking through snow to feed it! But I definitely don’t do it at 4:30am haha! More like 9. I didn’t know beans about boilers when I got mine but I did a ton of reading and YouTube videos to learn. I got my stove cheap for two reasons. 1. The guy said it ate through wood and boiled over frequently. And 2. It was 20+years old. After reading an online manual for it I quickly found the boiler over issue and why it was going through wood. The draft door was missing on the fan so air was constantly coming in. $35 fix! And a few other small things and it works great. But you can easily spend 15k or more if you walk into a dealer and start picking everything out. A little gumption gets you a long ways!

 

[3fordasho]

My friend in the UP is in a high lake effect snow area. His house also didn't have a basement so installed a OWB ......
figures with the orginal wood burner and the new building taller chimney he as almost $15,000 in makeing heat for his house.

Al

$15K is just a starting point for a new efficient wood boiler set up. After a couple weeks straight of keeping 4 wood burning stoves or furnaces going I've started looking at a centralized wood boiler based heating system to handle the house, shop and maybe a smaller outbuilding. So pick your poison, be it GARN, Switzer, Frohling or Heatmaster G200 they all start around 9-11k and add in another 4-6K for piping, fittings and heat exchangers. That will buy a lot of propane !! Especially if it stays around a buck a gallon. No guarantee of that however....

 

[blakey]

I bit the bullet in 2001 and installed a CB 5648 to heat a big farmhouse, domestic hot water and 2 out buildings when needed. Spent 14k at the time and it's been a very good investment. I do spend some time gathering wood but I do as much of the wood moving as possible with my loader tractor and hay wagons. Loading the owb twice a day is the easy part, mine is located right beside my shed so I wheel the wood out the door and I'm right there. Work smarter not harder, lol. This is my 17th season heating 100% with wood. I have bought triaxle loads of logs about every other year on average. I am guessing I am replacing at least 4k per year in energy costs.

 

[panolo]

I probably have $10k into my setup and tools. I have a CB edge 550. I bought what I think is some of the best piping for the underground and put in a small slab with it. I also built a small 7 cord wood shed. It's a gasification boiler so it needs pretty seasoned wood. I fill it twice a day. On a day like today (40 outside) I put a few sticks in the morning and a few at night. When it's cold I just add more sticks at the same times. I'm set for 12 hour burns. I clean it once every two weeks and get about 3 gallons of ash. There is almost zero smoke so I don't worry about winds or my neighbors. It was a learning experience last year but have it decently dialed in now. Thermostat stays at 72-74 and my house is 5k square foot. I don't keep all of it super warm but probably 2.5 to 3k.

Should add I at about 3.5 cords so far with 3 of that being slab wood.

 

[chaded]

Two of our friends are burning close to a cord a week in the subzero weather we've been having in their OWB's. They are saving a ton over burning LP or natural gas, however it's a fu time job to keep up. Our indoor epa furnace however burns a tiny fraction of the wood they are burning. We burn 4 to 5 cord a year, and they burn around 20 cord or more. Before we updated to a epa model, we burned 8-12 cord a year. It was a struggle keeping up with wood, where now I can cut at my leisure. Wood for them however is a full time job. An OWB just wasn't for us.

A cord a week!? Wow. How big of a house and how well insulated?

 

[laynes69]

The one home does not have insulation, around 2000 sqft, while the other one is insulated, but leaks alot of air (3200 sqft.). One has a central boiler and the other has a hardy.

 

[sirbuildalot]

I'm pretty sure Al was saying just the OWB and the taller pipe to get through the roof was $15,000. Not including the building around it.

 

[alleyyooper]

Right the building was extra.
I don't mind snow my self, in fact like plowing it blowing it and snowmobileing on it. But to go out and wade a 4 foot drift at 4:00/4:30 to fill a furnace before I go off to work isn't my cup of tea nor my friends either.

Al

 

[panolo]

Don't know where you are in Central Mn(i'm a little south of St. Cloud) but if I cut a dead standing oak it is still mostly over 40% moisture. I don't know of much oak in our area that doesn't need 2 years to be less than 20%. I have some stuff I put up 6 months before I tested it and it was still close to 30%. It was dead as a door nail when I cut it. Figure it will be good after this summer.

Cut this last Feb/March so atleast 10 months cut, it was standing dead, and in a 8' log. I let it set for 3 hours on a register to thaw.

 

[jfriesner]

Cut this last Feb/March so atleast 10 months cut, it was standing dead, and in a 8' log. I let it set for 3 hours on a register to thaw. View attachment 627357 View attachment 627359 View attachment 627360

Is that 39%? Great to know. I probably have at least 20-30cord of stuff like that laying all over my 40 after all these storms. It should season pretty quickly without bark on it. I should get me one of those fancy gizmos!

 

[NSMaple1]

I'd still split it, at least once, even if the bark is off.

 

[panolo]

Yes it is 39%. Really shows you need to get red oak cut, bucked, split, and stacked for it to dry. Most oaks that I see standing dead without the bark have been dead for years. Even cut in a 8' log for 10 months it probably lost very little moisture.

 

[jfriesner]

I'd still split it, at least once, even if the bark is off.

Ya I split it once just to make it easier on my back and so it can dry.