Technical removal!! Let's talk

[rbtree]

Spider web anyone? We had three guy lines, three lowering blocks, one speedline block, and another pulley or so somewhere, I'm certain. LOL. 9 ropes total, methinks.

And Mr Maas, inventor extraordinaire, will be chagrined to see that we had no ground anchors. Me too, after seeing the wood!!! Just wait til I get the wood photos posted that Scott Baker shot. Well come to Seattle this summer, and dont miss his talk on tree biology.

Done a slew of hazard trees, storm, dead, dying in my 30 years of tree werk, but nothing even approaching this baby!!

Just cut the last branch, now to make the beeline for the preheated pick up truck, Thanks guys!! Brrr.

The experience was a close second to a December '93 day in Lake Louise, Alberta. It was 14 below F, breezy, and I was standing alongside the Women's World Cup Downhill race, attempting to shoot some pics. It is hard to hold a 300 mm f/2.8 lens steady, even on a monopod, but even harder when your teeth won't stop chattering! It was one degree from the temp at which the race would have been postponed. The women that did not have face masks had put white tape on any exposed skin. I had a photo published of a Russian gal, it was there in plain sight!

 

[rbtree]

Powder snow and flowering plums......

...and an icicle on the end of a rope, to say nothing of a nose!!

 

[rbtree]

Ian getting into position to lower some wood. Three blocks left over. See the two tops guyed together, eight feet above that point was my primary tie in. Hollow and open on one side below where the two guyed limbs join the trunk........


......dicey to say the least!!!

 

[Oxman]

Internal decay

Can this tree be saved? (Cue melodramatic organ music.)

 

[treeclimber165]

Re: Internal decay

Originally posted by Oxman
Can this tree be saved? (Cue melodramatic organ music.)

SURE! It's got almost 1/4" live wood on that one side, it'll be fine! Just build up a huge landscape berm about 18" deep around the trunk, and it won't hurt the tree a bit to dig that swimming pool about 3 feet away from the tree!

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Yuo can save it for a drumb to call tribal meetings.

 

[rbtree]

ZIPidydoodahzippideday!!!

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Very good JP!

i like putting 2 contact points on speedline for: spreading out weight on line, more friction, more clearance. Real nice pic and ;esson here!

Also; sometimes; mostly i hang the load from the line; but sometimes i drop the load onto the line letting th far end stradle, and the stub end getsslinged and binered only. It 'll ride if ya get it write. Then more support, friction etc.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

What are all those ropes hangind down?

If this tree was hollow, why isn't it guyed?

 

[rbtree]

Bout time you showed up, Mike, were your ears burning?

There are three guy lines in the tree, lashing branches and leaders together. There was only one possible ground anchor point that would have done any good. I considered it, but it could have applied some forces that I didn't like. It would have required two lines meeting into one, then to a birch 130 feet away, over the pool. I did have one unused bull rope, in retrospect, I wished we'd installed it. We were careful to not do much shock loading of anchors, although we did have to really tension the speedline to lift branches clear of the landscape.

We used a total of 11 lines, including a tag line for a few branches, and a stop line draped around the speedline to keep the branches from sliding into opposing shrubbery, as the line was being slacked. The lowering control line ostensibly could have controlled this movement, but the two ground crews had no visual contact. No problem, it just made things run a bit smoother a few times.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

It's hard to get the scale of things from a picture, but it looks like there are tons of anchor points all over. Even a small tree has lots of holding power right at the base.

In the last picture, I see a speedline and it looks like two climbers. Then there are 6 or more lines hanging down.

 

[rbtree]

Mike, due to the structure of the tree, and the lean bias, the only anchor that would have helped is the back one that i mentioned. Here's my first try at drawing. I had considered ground guying my lifeline points, but saw no need, as body weight applied little stress. Had I only had one new top to work out of instead of two tied together, I would have.

While we did have to tension the speed line a lot, it was after dropping each limb onto it, so there was no shock loading. and the speed line went through a crotch in the left leader and was deadended in the main leader, low enough down that there were no significant side loads. Within a 30 deg. either way range of 180 deg. off the load, there was no ground anchor point.

As Scott Baker pointed out, while this tree was structurally unsound, it still had an incredible amount of strength. He has Klaus Mattheck's fractometer, and explained the extremely high strength of reaction wood. If he ever gets his photos to me, I'll post shots of the main fork union area, which is completely hollow, but loaded with reaction wood. Hope you are in Seattle, as we plan to deliver the hollow butt section (complete with fake hibernating bear) to the arboretum for his seminar.

That said, this was by far the diciest, riskiest removal of a standing tree we've ever done. After seeing the wood, and seeing some of the 4-5 foot logs shatter upon impact, we were all very thankful that the job proceeded without any surprises.

 

[rbtree]

A mistake Ian made, shown in this shot, was not stringing the line through the central block, out of sight in the photo.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Very good; that is what i saw when you posted; but didn't want to 'attack'...........

The next thing for maximum would be the block held right against anchor tight i think, then tag line put on top side of load (in same position) and run line to top for most leverage(someitmes into a "V" so it can't come out). Setting it up this way you could make wide mouth hinge; walk it to a point of folding on back cut as ground guys pulled on tag line in torqued back position pulling on maximum leverage point to s-l-o-w-l-y fold load into pre-tightened rigging line/ pulley; then run. Having a pulley for pivot will put more load on anchor (than friction redirect); folding load slowly into it will lessen impact substancially, and then running load will make have less pull on anchor; for you will not be supporting the whole load. Being; as what ever the force of load is, must be matched by brake force to hold it, with pulley as redirect, any weight you are running and not holding back; takes 2x that amount of load of anchor system i think.

This slow folding over into the rigging is where i visualize a hydralically dampened hinge action in gin pole post; to eliminate momentum as load turns down 180 degrees. All the leveraged pull is to get it to fold earlier with a meatier hinge; then the pull is released once folding is committed into action. The heftier hinge will usher slower movement of load inverting; than if it just started folding under its own weight with less hinge. Until faces close on knotch cut. Same thing on dropping trees; wide mouth for most ushered motion, wedging and pulling from highest leverage, torqued back to commence folding with more fiber holding. At least it seems to work for me.........

Also, i was wondering if that pulley was a heavy duty block or 'rescue' type; but i wasn't there to make these decisions; and pix can be decieving. Obviously Y'all did well...........

 

[rbtree]

good points all, spyder.

We had run out of lowering blocks and eye slings. When I set that 4 inch 16000 SMC drop side stainless pulley, with poor sling choice, I was only lowering smaller stuff, and I was able to wrap the sling to get the block close to the action. Even that piece Ian is lowering is reasonably light, and we let it run a long way. So not up to Arbormaster standards, but no big deal. The block shows no sign of overloading. (I've seen some destroyed from slam dunking wood onto them, not by us though!) I do use it occasionaly for stuff a bit too big, will likely work on doing less of that. I was running around, shooting with three different cameras, or i would have had him set through both blocks. No need to worry about proper tag line setting, tho, the piece had a big lean, and came over smoothly anyhow. I do have to remind Ian to cut open faces, though.

 

[riggs]

I'll be honest with you , Why is this a technical removal? Looks routine , Why all the anchors , is the base all messed up , and why two guys in the tree . Looks like a dog and pony show .

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

There is a pic of the butt on another tread posted by Mike Oxman. It had a fissure and very little meat left.

 

[rbtree]

riggs,

take a closer look, my friend. read the whole thread, look at all the photos. I'd scan and post the resistographs, but the quality is already poor. Waiting for more photos showing incredible structural problems to be sent to me. Come to Seattle, listen to Scott Baker's talk, see the trunk section up close and personal......

No need to prove myself, mine and the crew's experience, abilities, and reputation are second to none.

For the difficulties presented by the tree and site, extreme (possibly) risk of some tree part failure during operations, we should have been compensated WAY above the price of highest bid.

 

[riggs]

I read the whole thread and saw the photos . Now , I'm not questioning your abitlity , I just think you over did it . Spent the day before getting set up , and not making a cut till 10 a.m , the next day , sounds like more show than go . Also, you weren't so concerned about the tree to place two climbers in it . So , you said let's talk .

 

[rbtree]

Guess you shoulda been there to show us how it should have been done. Know dan Kraus? He video'd day one, ask him. or Oxman. Actually that was day two, as it took close to 14 manhours the first day just to prep the ground, tying shrubs, trees, tarping same, guying the tree, and cutting a tiny bit of brush. Day two was cold, that did slow us a bit. Two lower lines and speed line had to be set. Two truck for speed anchor, one to back guy the anchor tree,one to dead end the line. Z pulley had to be set, then another pulley was added later. When that wasn't enough, my fiddle blocks came out.
Experience: Tom Ford- 20 yrs , myself 30. ground: Oxman-30, Dave Wyatte-30, . One green gman, he did fine, and another great one.

Actually, Riggs, I'm kinda repeating myself. you should do a better job of reading the entire thread. Everything is explained, including the reason for two guys in the tree. Hell, one climber for the required four gmen, you got to be kidding. And, it was impossible to do the job with less than four on the ground, two at each station. True, often Tom or i would have to wait, as the ground guys were occupied, as well i needed both lower lines to bring my brush into the drop zone. Couldnt speed the back side. By the way, three were busy controlling every branch that was rigged out on the zipper.