Test! Select the correct backcut...

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They said I got it wrong. I disagree. Stupid them. I was taught to make the back cut an inch or so above the face.

Their face looks stupid too. Looks like they learned from beavers.

Dumb, stupid...grumble.

They said my choice would result in a barber chair. Wrong.

No wonder so many people get hurt...if they believe that garbage.

Stomping off to replace track bolts on the shovel.
 
i didnt see any problems with the notch, its a standard open faced notch, although surely different from anything that you guys use out west though. but i got it right, i almost went for option 2 but i can see that that would leave such a small hinge.
 
They said I got it wrong. I disagree. Stupid them. I was taught to make the back cut an inch or so above the face.

Their face looks stupid too. Looks like they learned from beavers.

Dumb, stupid...grumble.

They said my choice would result in a barber chair. Wrong.

No wonder so many people get hurt...if they believe that garbage.

Stomping off to replace track bolts on the shovel.
I was taught the same thing! Matter of fact my dad might have taken my saw awy from with their correct picture.
 
You are all correct - sortof... Here is the trick from another OSHA page. It says...

"Except in Open Face felling, the backcut must be above the level of the horizontal facecut in order to provide an adequate platform to prevent kickback."

So that was an "Open face" cut (as opposed to conventional face or Humbolt face), so I guess using that specific face, you are supposed to make the back cut line up with the intersection of the face cuts????

Note I got it wrong myself. I went with the backcut which was higher and left a hinge.

Note on the following page they show the backcut level and not angled down with an open face cut? (It should be level so far as I know???)...
http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/logging/manual/felling/cuts/cuts.html

OSHA page where it says "Except in Open Face felling..."...
http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/logging/manual/felling/cuts/cuts.html

Open face...
http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/logging/manual/felling/cuts/open_faced_top_cuts.html

Conventional face...
http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/logging/manual/felling/cuts/conventional_top_cuts.html

Humbolt face...
http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/logging/manual/felling/cuts/humbolt_top_cuts.html
 
No "step" is needed in the back cut of an open face notch because the hinge remains intact throughout the entire fall.

"Looks like they learned from beavers", That's funny right there. lol.
 
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its right on the osha website.

What he said. This technique gives more control because the tree never gets to air out with the weight. An advantage in certain situations, usually arborist work not logging. I want my trees to break clean and jump 99% of the time when logging.
 
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Open Face ???

"No "step" is needed in the back cut of an open face notch because the hinge remains intact throughout the entire fall."

Not always possible.
Ever try cutting dead dried out snags, frozen wood, drought stressed trees etc?

Remember open face is a production technique for felling smaller second growth timber. Works fine there. Its compromises need to be understood just like the compromises made somewhere in every other cutting method.

Not every tree/snag is capable of holding the hinge through a 70 degree + fall so when a bunch of verbiage comes out about "No "step" is needed in the back cut of an open face notch because the hinge remains intact throughout the entire fall" that is setting up the lesser experienced sawyers for failure.

------------

{However, with regard to the higher back-cut preventing all butt logs from kicking back. Take that with a grain of salt too.}

************

Here is another thought that open face aficionados don't consider. What happens when you're dropping a bigger tree uphill on a fair slope and the hinge wood is still holding? Who you gonna send in there to cut that holding hinge?

Simply; there are also times you want that separation from butt and stump.

--------------

How is a fire fighter going to jump a tree away from a helispot or fireline with the butt hanging on?
For some reason I get the impression open face doesn't include any of these thoughts in their training.
 
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"No "step" is needed in the back cut of an open face notch because the hinge remains intact throughout the entire fall."

Not always possible.
Ever try cutting dead dried out snags, frozen wood, drought stressed trees etc?

Remember open face is a production technique for felling smaller second growth timber. Works fine there. Its compromises need to be understood just like the compromises made somewhere in every othe cutting method.

Not every tree/snag is capable of holding the hinge through a 70 degree + fall so when a bunch of verbiage comes out about "No "step" is needed in the back cut of an open face notch because the hinge remains intact throughout the entire fall" that is setting up the lesser experienced sawyers for failure.

------------

{However, with regard to the higher back-cut preventing all butt logs from kicking back. Take that with a grain of salt too.}

************

Here is another thought that open face aficionados don't consider. What happens when you're dropping a bigger tree uphill on a fair slope and the hinge wood is still holding? Who you gonna send in there to cut that holding hinge?

Simply; there are also times you want that separation from butt and stump.

--------------

How is a fire fighter going to jump a tree away from a helispot or fireline with the butt hanging on?
For some reason I get the impression open face doesn't include any of these thoughts in their training.

Well said there Mr SC.
 
I say, they have not given enough information to answer the question at all, much less answer it correctly.
In the right circumstances any of the three choices might be right. But imo the need or want for an open face is rare.
 
that all depends on location. you guys out west dont use much other than the humbolt, while you would see very very few of those up here in the north east. most notches your going to see are the open faced, or conventional, and a boring back cut to go with it. thats the way the GOL is teaching, and also CLP classes.
 
The way I see it, no one method is the "Best" or the only one that should be used.
I am having a real problem with all the posturing and ego trips with specific styles and "my way is the best, no matter what" attitude that is often seen here and almost always in "official" training media.
Why isn't the theory of what happens when a face cut closes and the hinge breaks being taught and let the cutter decide what to use when and where.
I have seen so many things that work occasionally be taught by the self appointed experts as "The Way" that I find it some what sickening.
One of the biggest ones is one that Smokechase referred to earlier. Stumpshot is being taught as "The Way" to keep the butt from coming back and hitting you. I have never heard anyone who demands stump shot ever explain, to the people who they demanded too use a high back cut, why and what causes the butt to come back. I would much rather people be taught to recognize when the butt was going to come back than be taught "Oh.....just use a high back cut and it can't slide back and hit you".
First that is bull. Of the many thousands of trees that I have cut with out stump shot, none, not one has ever had the butt slide off the back of the stump, unless it hit something as it was falling or it was up a very steep hill and it bounced over the stump. Invariably the butt always goes off the side of the stump the tree falls toward, unless there is a very good and plain reason for it not too.
Most times when something pushes the butt off the back of the stump, stumpshot has not prevented it from happening. So imo too teach it as a preventive measure but not what causes it is at best irresponsible.
Another thing that has been irritating me lately is this crazy thing of people pounding wedges into their bore cut. And then being proud of it!! Please give me a break!
 
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