The 70cc modifie'd saw claim's.

[blsnelling]

Oh darn bad guess

I did expect a reply like yours though

 

[NORMZILLA44]

Slamm, I am kind of a mixe'd bag. I grew up with sawin'g, and firewood, and tree work. I work for county road's, and we do alot of clearing, and storm work hazard removal's. I was transfered to the yard I am in over a year ago. My boss like'd my saw talent's, before I got there almost all tree's had to be remove'd by a tree service. I have been doing tree work since I was 14. I do everything but climb. But my two friend's and partner's climb, we rig lower do all but power line stuff. We also have 6 hunting ranche's we trade tree work equipment work, road work, a ton of tree removal brush clearing, and firewood. Most of the time a day doesn't go by in a week that I haven't grabbe'd a saw or cut something. I have dual port muffler's on my saw's, but they are stock. I have a 51 husky with a 20in bar. 044-372 both 28in. 660, with a 32, and my 2101 with a 34in that will pull a 60 in bar stock. So I am well rounde'd with saw's as well. I knew about porting, and porte'd modified saw's before I was a member. Walkerized saw's were here, and there my friend Brian is a Oregon faller in front of the helicopter logging. He doe's all the porting, and modification's. A brand new 660 will last him 6 month's in the wood's then they start to rattle, and he start's his new saw. He use's a 660 for everything, and if it's over 3 fet it's a 880. He also has a 390xp, say's he get's the best production from those saw's, and the 880 is the best for timber production, and if he was man enough that's the only saw he would use for the production capability. The 066-660 over time once a guy get's accustomed to it won't feel like you are packing much more than a 044. Don't get me wrong I use my 372-044 all the time as well, and the lightweight is very nice. I have run a 660 with a 48in canon bar that had evrything you could modify done to it. All our stock saw's here have outlaste'd the other's in our area with less maintenance. I am not against any modification's but with the 2101, and 660 I am in tall cotton even in the biggesst wood. Norm............

 

[ratso]

From reading this thread I guess there is no substitute for cubic centimeters
when running long bars and felling big timber

 

[Slamm]

From reading this thread I guess there is no substitute for cubic centimeters
when running long bars and felling big timber

Correct, and the neat thing is, there isn't or hasn't been one single person that disagrees with that assessment.

Sam

 

[NORMZILLA44]

Ben right o! I would rather cut small with to much saw than have big wood, and not enough saw. I almost had my 044 walkerized, but never panne'd out lack of cash. If done right I do agree proper modification's can make a good saw better.

 

[Sport Faller]

Correct, and the neat thing is, there isn't or hasn't been one single person that disagrees with that assessment.

Sam

Yessir, the big cc saws might be pretty heavy, but if you wanna wrassle you gotta weigh in

 

[NORMZILLA44]

Bigskyjake, I have family in Calispell. Right you are about your'e staement! I guess some people suffer from Mangina, and that is totally understandable, I don't suffer from it, but will try, and be more understaning in the future.

 

[MattCrowe]

This thread has taken more turns than a lost chinese tourist...

End of the day, experience tells me that if a log looks too big for my 460 i pull the chord on the 660, i don't grab the die grinder and try to make the 460 run harder, senseless in my opinion.

The original post had merit, modded 70cc class saws don't perform as well as standard 90cc class saws in 90cc class logs, they may do quiet well in 70cc class logs against a stock 90cc saw but its always gonna be horses for courses and we all as seasoned users know that when your working in the bush "modified" is a fish out of water.

 

[wyk]

has anyone thrown chains into this thread yet ?

Here comes some mud. This is the same chain in the previous vid where I am lugging the hell out of the 385XP into some Fir - just with a few links added and reground(no way was I gonna let that chain go with the 372 when I sold it). This is how it does in maple on a mostly stock 372XP when you don't lean on it too much(it's had a Madsens piston porting and a muff tune, but no cylinder port work). Uh, anyone got some video of a stock 660 doing this with a 28" B&C in Maple?:

<iframe width="420" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/njuHgek8R6Y" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

If only Fir cut that easily

 

[mdavlee]

This thread has taken more turns than a lost chinese tourist...

End of the day, experience tells me that if a log looks too big for my 460 i pull the chord on the 660, i don't grab the die grinder and try to make the 460 run harder, senseless in my opinion.

The original post had merit, modded 70cc class saws don't perform as well as standard 90cc class saws in 90cc class logs, they may do quiet well in 70cc class logs against a stock 90cc saw but its always gonna be horses for courses and we all as seasoned users know that when your working in the bush "modified" is a fish out of water.

I agree with the 70cc sized wood a modded 70cc will beat the stock 90cc saws. It's been the argument of what wood is 70cc sized and 90cc sized.

There are some fallers that won't use anything but modded saws regardless of cc size. I just cut firewood mostly so modded saws are more fun for a chore. I want to get another 70cc saw myself and more than likely it will be ported. I like running square ground chain for everything also. It is a little more tedious to file but can be done.

 

[AUSSIE1]

This thread has taken more turns than a lost chinese tourist...

End of the day, experience tells me that if a log looks too big for my 460 i pull the chord on the 660, i don't grab the die grinder and try to make the 460 run harder, senseless in my opinion.

The original post had merit, modded 70cc class saws don't perform as well as standard 90cc class saws in 90cc class logs, they may do quiet well in 70cc class logs against a stock 90cc saw but its always gonna be horses for courses and we all as seasoned users know that when your working in the bush "modified" is a fish out of water.

Sorry Matt, I agreed up till "working in the bush "modified" is a fish out of water"

A properly ported saw can more than cope with a bar next size up from the best bar run when standard. A well ported saw can easily run with a 90cc saw in the lower end of the 90cc wood size range. Remember, stock saws aren't particularly fire breathers. This is why some in a working environment who have to carry one around all day choose a modified 70cc bracket saw.

Ask Matt (MCW) what saws he uses in his work environment.

As much as a ported saw is a play thing, used wisely, a well ported saw certainly has it's place in a working environment.

My worked 70cc bracket saws wear mostly 24" bars.

Matt, what personnel experience have you had with a ported saw?

 

[RiverRat2]

Sorry Matt, I agreed up till "working in the bush "modified" is a fish out of water"

A properly ported saw can more than cope with a bar next size up from the best bar run when standard. A well ported saw can easily run with a 90cc saw in the lower end of the 90cc wood size range. Remember, stock saws aren't particularly fire breathers. This is why some in a working environment who have to carry one around all day choose a modified 70cc bracket saw.

Ask Matt (MCW) what saws he uses in his work environment.

As much as a ported saw is a play thing, used wisely, a well ported saw certainly has it's place in a working environment.

My worked 70cc bracket saws wear mostly 24" bars.

Matt, what personnel experience have you had with a ported saw?

Uhh yep,,, Ya,,,,, have to agree,,, My own 70 CC class saws bars range from 24" minimum and mostly 28---33 "bars are what we use every day,,, Commercial tree care/ removals stumps flush cut etc,,, not a stock one left any more excepth the ones still in original boxes not yet ported,,, I guess those are my fish out of water,,, LOLOL!!!

 

[MattCrowe]

Matt, what personnel experience have you had with a ported saw?

One bad one, i got a "cheap" modified 044 about 6 years back that would quote "run rings around my 066" at the time, i found it to be fairly deceptive, it certainly sounded like an angry piece of work but i think that's where it was at, when your holding something light, angry and loud i think you get led into a false sense of security, the power increase would have been hardly readable, like with most things, i would like to see some real dyno figures.

An ms460 stock @ 4.4KW 76.5cc and 6.6KG

An ms660 stock @ 5.7KW 91.6cc and 7.3KG

So for 700grams and 15cc's we gain over 25% in power

I would be interested to see a port job gain half that in real power figures, look i could be wrong, but i would be tipping best you would get would be 10% over stock and at a cost of maybe 50% of your day to day reliability to save carrying under a kilo.

 

[056kid]

One bad one, i got a "cheap" modified 044 about 6 years back that would quote "run rings around my 066" at the time, i found it to be fairly deceptive, it certainly sounded like an angry piece of work but i think that's where it was at, when your holding something light, angry and loud i think you get led into a false sense of security, the power increase would have been hardly readable, like with most things, i would like to see some real dyno figures.

An ms460 stock @ 4.4KW 76.5cc and 6.6KG

An ms660 stock @ 5.7KW 91.6cc and 7.3KG

So for 700grams and 15cc's we gain over 25% in power

I would be interested to see a port job gain half that in real power figures, look i could be wrong, but i would be tipping best you would get would be 10% over stock and at a cost of maybe 50% of your day to day reliability to save carrying under a kilo.

When you look at the weight of a loaded 660 with a 36" full comp setup, I don't have a scale handy but I would guess 24 lbs or so. that is light. . .

 

[NORMZILLA44]

I agree mattcrow, and the Kid good point's. If a guy want's to trim weight get a lighter bar. I agree to the porte'd saw's have there place, and a gain is obvious, but torque is hard to catch, and you can only up it so much. Still will be a gap between the 70cc, and 90plus. A stock 660 can pull a 42in bar in big timber, and it won't kill it. Stock 70cc 32 I say i max. Saw a 36in bar put an end to a 046 mag, it did run it a couple year's. Porte'd 70 class if the torque gain was as huge as claime'd then you could pull 36in plus bar's in anything. A dyno would be really cool!!!! I agree!opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:opcorn: The big bar, or saw is not a macho thing for me, it just make's the work shorter, and easier here. Less 2 side'd cut's, easier to keep square corner's. Really don't like an every day bar for me anyway over 34, I am to short LOL! I do like as big as possible falling big tree's. Help's keep your'e corner's, and cut's square. I also have to rip, and quarter alot of wood, and the big saw's get me of my knee's faster.

 

[056kid]

Find two head leaners about the same, and begin the test.


I was taught to chase a barber chair at ALL costs. I do it too, having some ass to put the clampers on her when you want too is worth it IMO. Hell, if I owned a 123cc stihl I would cut with it.


Bigger saw = stronger operator.

 

[NORMZILLA44]

But I want a saw that feel's good in my hand's, doesn't vibrate or burn fuel, sound's cool, look's good on camera, pull's a 24in bar with a custom race chain like no other. Mostly I cut 12in cookie's, but occasionally get into 18in wood so I really need the power:msp_w00t:

 

[Hedgerow]

But I want a saw that feel's good in my hand's, doesn't vibrate or burn fuel, sound's cool, look's good on camera, pull's a 24in bar with a custom race chain like no other. Mostly I cut 12in cookie's, but occasionally get into 18in wood so I really need the power:msp_w00t:

I'll go on record as saying I prefer ported 70 cc saws. But I'll be putting the 076 to work this weekend with a 41" bar in a log that warrants it. They ain't got rpm's, but the ability to pull long bars sure is handy at times... I'll post video just for you Norm...:msp_wink:

 

[AUSSIE1]

One bad one, i got a "cheap" modified 044 about 6 years back that would quote "run rings around my 066" at the time, i found it to be fairly deceptive, it certainly sounded like an angry piece of work but i think that's where it was at, when your holding something light, angry and loud i think you get led into a false sense of security, the power increase would have been hardly readable, like with most things, i would like to see some real dyno figures.

An ms460 stock @ 4.4KW 76.5cc and 6.6KG

An ms660 stock @ 5.7KW 91.6cc and 7.3KG

So for 700grams and 15cc's we gain over 25% in power

I would be interested to see a port job gain half that in real power figures, look i could be wrong, but i would be tipping best you would get would be 10% over stock and at a cost of maybe 50% of your day to day reliability to save carrying under a kilo.

Yes, you could be wrong. Best you do some back reading through the AS archives.

 

[edisto]

Yes, you could be wrong. Best you do some back reading through the AS archives.

A proper muffler mod will get you a good start on that 10% and improve reliability in most cases.

A ham-fisted hack job might cut reliability to 50%, but properly done, the trade-off between power and reliability is nowhere near as dire as your predictions unless you really are taking things to an extreme.