The "Not So Pro" discussion thread...of course Pros are welcome!

[1270d]

The faller wasn't making scale the way he was planting them against the wall.

those arches were used a lot out your way weren't they Gologit?

 

[Gologit]

Yes they were. Some were on tires, some were on tracks. LOL...I never really liked either one.

 

[Spotted Owl]

I've only seen an arch used a handful of times. All but one seemed more work and pain in the butt than it was worth. The other was an old school cat skinner. I've said it before and he was a shining example of, enjoying watching people who know what they're doing. That guy did some neat stuff with that thing. Rigging off it and actually able to move some huge wood, I didn't think that the cat was big enough to move. Lots to learn from the old guys, specially if the younger guy could pocket their ego and pay attention.

I must be turning into that, get off my lawn guy. It just seems that younger guys as a whole, don't give two hoots about what the older guys have to teach. It sickens me sometimes to think about all the experience and knowledge that is lost as these guys age and disappear into retirement or worse. Pull your head out kids and pay attention, this could all be past down if interest is shown.



Owl

 

[1270d]

It would be nice if there was even some guys around here younger than me (or older) that wanted to log anymore. Heads in the rear or not there just isn't anyone that wants to do it.

 

[treeslayer2003]

i don't think they care owl.
1270 they ain't comin..........all i see behind me is my shadow.....

 

[Cedarkerf]

Amazing how many arches we have around as yard ornaments somebody used to use em should make a small drive and see how may we have within 5 miles. We still have a small hard core group of local loggers out here.

 

[1270d]

Its too bad really. Its a very enjoyable job. The draw for the blue collar types around here is iron mines. Starting out around 100k. Wood prices aren't good enough to even come close to that on the best year.

I'd work in the mines too if you were compensated for your effort and skill, not seniority. I hate modern unions. Hate em.

 

[treeslayer2003]

thing is, i know guys that can but don't like it. my son is good on a skidder, i seen him pull a load in a hour n a half. he just won't do it every day. i guess we are different........

 

[northmanlogging]

micro soft and boeing/boing. Cush jobs high wages little actual work... if its not those to its assorted "Tech" jobs lotta ass sittin and getting paid for it, hard to compete with breaking a sweat and getting cut bruised and scraped for not a whole lot of money.

Timber prices have been working their way back up over the last couple of years, and I've noticed a whole lot more gyppo's around, whether its good or bad I don't care, most of em wont make it far.

Not saying I'm any better I did start this trip when Hemlock was going for 150 mbf and Doug Fir was 175-180, and managed to not loose money in the process, haven't really made much so far but I got a bunch of equipment now...

There are even more tree services now than there where 5 years ago... enough that I don't see ass puh lunk out nearly as often, which is fine since I kinda figured them as hacks anyway...

P.S. I started dragging chokers behind an arch like that, when I was 11... my uncle never had a problem putting it anywhere he wanted, almost effortless... the winch on the other hand... last time I helped him log low gear was gone and the brake ratchet thing was broken... not to mention not having enough cash to put diesel in the ole D4... Its a long story and the logging was being done to save his property.

 

[slowp]

They are yard ornaments around here too. There is a house in Morton with some huge blocks as yard ornaments. They are painted cheerful colors.

A gypo logger went to work at Boeing. He wasn't impressed but I think he has stuck with it. The money is more dependable even though he said it was very boring work.

 

[Cedarkerf]

They are yard ornaments around here too. There is a house in Morton with some huge blocks as yard ornaments. They are painted cheerful colors.

A gypo logger went to work at Boeing. He wasn't impressed but I think he has stuck with it. The money is more dependable even though he said it was very boring work.

Yup I make great money for the amount of work I do would love to work in the woods full time but pays to good. I got into aviation when Mr spotted owl changed the face of the timber industry as the number of unemployed timber folks increased saw the writing on the wall. Fortunately I work on airplanes that fly not in the factory
Heck I make great money if I had to bust my hump.

 

[Metals406]

I can say in my own experience, that it's not always the younger generation unwilling to learn about the timber industry, and want to work in it.

When I was logging full time, the oldest brother of the family, and also the head faller, encourage me to quit the company and move on to something else. Shortly after that I followed his advice, and moved on. Mostly because his brother was a real butt face, & I wanted to kill him.
In order to get the experience that I needed or wanted, I had to jump through flaming hoops to get help from older timber fallers and guys that were established.

Their reasoning was sound, they knew it was dangerous, the money wasn't that good, and the future of logging is bleak.

Many of them are fathers, and refuse to teach their own sons, for fear that they would be killed, maimed, or not be able to pay the bills when they were trying to establish a family.

It's true, that you have to really love it to want to do it.

 

[treeslayer2003]

I can say in my own experience, that it's not always the younger generation unwilling to learn about the timber industry, and want to work in it.

When I was logging full time, the oldest brother of the family, and also the head faller, encourage me to quit the company and move on to something else. Shortly after that I followed his advice, and moved on. Mostly because his brother was a real butt face, & I wanted to kill him.
In order to get the experience that I needed or wanted, I had to jump through flaming hoops to get help from older timber fallers and guys that were established.

Their reasoning was sound, they knew it was dangerous, the money wasn't that good, and the future of logging is bleak.

Many of them are fathers, and refuse to teach their own sons, for fear that they would be killed, maimed, or not be able to pay the bills when they were trying to establish a family.

It's true, that you have to really love it to want to do it.

yes, thats true.......how ever i have done worse........much worse actualy. the woods has been good to me.....its home.

 

[slowp]

Well, I cut the hinge off my alder of the day. It was a small one and well committed no harm done this time. I haven't run my saw for a while, so better get more practice!

 

[Gologit]

... or not be able to pay the bills when they were trying to establish a family.

The kids coming up today are a little sharper and a lot more well informed than I was at that age. They have more information quickly available, and on a wider scope, than their Dads or Granddads. They can see what logging has turned into and they don't want to wind up with obsolete skills when they're too old to retrain. They look farther down the road than the kids did when I was starting out. They look down the road at a logging career and they don't like what they see. Can't say as I blame them much. The opportunities won't be there for them like they were for me.

I was lucky to always be able to make a good living in the woods but a lot of it was luck, just being in the right place at the right time. My skill sets aren't unique among my peers and there are a thousand guys that can do everything I can do...and probably do it better. I'd get mad sometimes and quit and try other things but all I ever really wanted to do was log. Logging turned out okay for me but I don't blame a young guy for not wanting to do it.

The last guy I trained to fall was my nephew and he already had a good background in logging. He went out on his own, running his own numbers and living like a gypsy with a tin hat, and decided that he might be better off going to college. He still picks up side money with his saws but he's half way to a Forestry degree now. Smart kid.

 

[treeslayer2003]

glad to hear your nephew is doing well........however i have a different opinion of why many won't show up to the woods..........or any where else for that matter.

 

[rwoods]

I can say in my own experience, that it's not always the younger generation unwilling to learn about the timber industry, and want to work in it.

When I was logging full time, the oldest brother of the family, and also the head faller, encourage me to quit the company and move on to something else. Shortly after that I followed his advice, and moved on. Mostly because his brother was a real butt face, & I wanted to kill him.
In order to get the experience that I needed or wanted, I had to jump through flaming hoops to get help from older timber fallers and guys that were established.

Their reasoning was sound, they knew it was dangerous, the money wasn't that good, and the future of logging is bleak.

Many of them are fathers, and refuse to teach their own sons, for fear that they would be killed, maimed, or not be able to pay the bills when they were trying to establish a family.

It's true, that you have to really love it to want to do it.

A lot of truth there. But for the discouragement of past generations for the above stated reasons, my life would have taken a different path. I complied, broke the mold of earning a living from the earth, and made two generations proud. I sometimes wonder though if I would have been more content if I had at least chosen an outdoor path. Then again I would probably be broke and/or dead. I know I would sometimes have been wetter, hotter and/or colder than I like. Ron

 

[Gologit]

glad to hear your nephew is doing well........however i have a different opinion of why many won't show up to the woods..........or any where else for that matter.

I know what you mean. I'll spare you the "old guy rant" about kids today not having the work ethic that their elders have but in many cases it's true.
But what do we expect?
When kids are given things that they don't have to put forth any effort to obtain it creates an attitude of entitlement. I don't know all the mental processes involved but if something comes easily...toys, gadgets, clothes, cars, an education, a lifestyle where every need is met with no expectation of any effort on the recipient's part... not just once but again and again over a period of years, does it really have any worth to the person getting it?
I've seen some good, responsible, hard working kids and I've seen the other kind too. Same with adults. I know of two thirty-something guys who still live at home with every need still being met by Mommy and Daddy. They're distant relatives. I avoid them.
I also know of a couple of twenty something guys who are more responsible and productive than most older people. One of them was a clerk in a convenience store who got on as a clean-up man at a local lumber mill. He shoveled sawdust for a year and then started working his way up. He's training to be a millwright now. He got the chance to move ahead because he worked hard and did what he was supposed to do. He doubled his wages from 7-11, has health benefits for his wife and kids, and truly believes he's the luckiest guy around.
The other one is my nephew. He logs in the summer, works whenever he can at whatever he can find in the winter, and is putting himself through college. He doesn't sleep much or sit in front of the TV either.
Those good kids are out there. It's just that the other kind, the kind that makes us cuss and tear our hair, are easier to find.

 

[Spotted Owl]

Besides some with smarts, I certainly hope that streak grows, a huge dose of ego, I think from what I see there is an epidemic.

LAZY, and Expectant.

Kids that want the pay and status, but don't want to put in the work/time to get it. Enough to try and fool their way through it. Frustrating to see the potential they hold, and they don't want anything to do with it themselves. Some could be amazing if they gave a half hearted try. There is one thing that stands out among them, many do more work getting out of work than they would have to do if they did the job.

Makes it refreshing when you do run into a kid with drive and down to earth thoughts. They're easy to spot, cause you can't get away from them. They stick to anyone with knowledge and willingness to teach like a puppy dog.

The new generation coming up gives me worry. Some though give me the thought that things will be just fine, I hope that crowd grows.



Owl

 

[northmanlogging]

i would at least verify ownership and get the permit. those folks will know if any thing is goin on with the property. you might as well try and get along with them if your gonna log.......you'll be seeing alot of them.
good luck with it northy. i don't give up on work easy, but i will stay legal any more.

This goes back a few days... county web sight was down over the weekend... any way... Guess what... names on the title don't match names given in person, and its listed funny in the tax records so to log it legally I'd have to change how its listed, not to mention contacting legal owner... so guess who's running away now!

It kinda sucks cause it really is some very nice timber, and probably enough for me to cost for a few months after cutting it... Oh well there are other forests to plunder.