The "Not So Pro" discussion thread...of course Pros are welcome!

[Skeans]

With smaller wood they're grabbing more low quality product and moving more per unit of time to make the same amount of money.

I had a 568 roadbuilder from March to a few weeks ago. The swing torque is unreal compared to the 330s & 336s we had before. I love that machine

Yeah they are, it's a 37 year old cycle now for Weyerhaeuser. I know I saw C&C's 568 go into the dealer one day with a broken boom and a few guys have broke out the swing motors. A few guys also have the big Tigercat 880 shovels and like them they say they are almost overbuilt.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

 

[treeslayer2003]

Hey Mike, you missed this being gone, but about 2 months I hit the far corner for the first time in my life!View attachment 455731

looks good John. want to know a secrete? i often cheat by putting in the face cut first. i can't really do that swinging face cut very often or the stumps are to high. making the face first and starting with the bar about at ground level lets me get a lower stump and still use a fairly steep humbolt. i rarely ever even look any more to see if matched, it almost always does except for little pecker poles......i'm bad for overcutting them.
funny, this job the pine are really old and theres duff built up around the stump pretty deep, cut low and run over it a few times, its two feet tall lol.

 

[catbuster]

The 568 we used this year was set up like this-but with a beefier bucket/thumb (Yes, this is a 1:50 scale model, but it should give you an idea):

I used it out in front of my dozers and bigger (345/349) excavators to pioneer the roads we built, in conjunction with a sawyer.

 

[Metals406]

The 568 we used this year was set up like this-but with a beefier bucket/thumb (Yes, this is a 1:50 scale model, but it should give you an idea):

I used it out in front of my dozers and bigger (345/349) excavators to pioneer the roads we built, in conjunction with a sawyer.

I like sawing for equipment, changes things up.

 

[Metals406]

 

[Skeans]

I wish I could show you pictures of the shovels.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

 

[HuskStihl]

looks good John. want to know a secrete? i often cheat by putting in the face cut first. i can't really do that swinging face cut very often or the stumps are to high. making the face first and starting with the bar about at ground level lets me get a lower stump and still use a fairly steep humbolt. i rarely ever even look any more to see if matched, it almost always does except for little pecker poles......i'm bad for overcutting them.
funny, this job the pine are really old and theres duff built up around the stump pretty deep, cut low and run over it a few times, its two feet tall lol.

Thanks mike! You're pretty knowledgable for such a young man!

 

[northmanlogging]

Why not get a smaller shovel instead of a self loader?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

As of now a small 120-160 excavator is the plan, I've got a few more years of hand cutting in me before driving off the deep end...

As far as the mechanized folks moving to bigger and bigger equipment it really doesn't make sense to me at all, bigger iron = bigger payment and more fuel, for basically the same or nearly the same amount of wood in a day, or they cut and load it so fast there isn't anything left at the end of the month, so they bid higher to get the next job, rinse and repeat. couple few years of this insanity and it will start to sink in that no one is making any money...

I liken it to the farmers that think having 100000000 acres this year will make them rich, but whether you till and plant 1 acre or 1,000,000 the cost at the end of the day is really about the same, especially since to till massive acreage you need a massive tractor... Logging goes hand in hand really, except that us dump loggers don't have a set acreage to fall back on generally, so you have to go find more... and more and more, would be sweet to just camp out on 1,000 acres of decent forest and only cut 10-20 acres a year, just enough to buy groceries, diesel, and ignore the taxes... but realistically that isn't going to happen.

 

[Gologit]

As far as the mechanized folks moving to bigger and bigger equipment it really doesn't make sense to me at all, bigger iron = bigger payment and more fuel, for basically the same or nearly the same amount of wood in a day, or they cut and load it so fast there isn't anything left at the end of the month, so they bid higher to get the next job, rinse and repeat. couple few years of this insanity and it will start to sink in that no one is making any money...

Exactly right. Plus, as your company gets bigger you'll find that you're spending less time in the woods and more time in the office. Time becomes your most valuable resource. Phone calls, meetings, the whole thing becomes a constant and never ending series of problem solving. A lot of the problems are petty and irritating but they're still there to be dealt with. If you don't deal with them they get bigger.
Hiring, firing, buying and selling equipment, more phone calls, more meetings, dealing with all the agencies and 'ologists, listening to the bean counters, lining up vendors, having to be polite to people that you'd really rather grab by the neck with both hands and choke until their face turns blue...all these things take up every minute of your day. And they cost.
Don't forget all the contracts and contract language and trying to understand all the legalese in the contracts...because if you don't you can get a royal screwing from something in the fine print... and finally having to have a lawyer on retainer to decipher the contracts. More meetings and more phone calls.
There's also the fact that you never really get a day off. If your home phone rings after nine at night and before daylight I guarantee it's going to be bad news. Something broke, something burned up, somebody is in jail, or somebody is mad about something and wants something done about it right now.
Other than all that it's not really a bad way to make a living. Except for the phone calls. And the meetings. You'll think back often on how nice it was when all you had to worry about was the next tree to cut or whether to change the oil in the skidder tonight or tomorrow. You won't think about that too long though 'cause the phone will ring...and you'll have to go to another meeting.

 

[northmanlogging]

That old yarder I mentioned a few months back is down to 5k... Still not dumb enough to buy it yet.

I like being the little guy.

 

[catbuster]

As of now a small 120-160 excavator is the plan, I've got a few more years of hand cutting in me before driving off the deep end...

As far as the mechanized folks moving to bigger and bigger equipment it really doesn't make sense to me at all, bigger iron = bigger payment and more fuel, for basically the same or nearly the same amount of wood in a day, or they cut and load it so fast there isn't anything left at the end of the month, so they bid higher to get the next job, rinse and repeat. couple few years of this insanity and it will start to sink in that no one is making any money...

I liken it to the farmers that think having 100000000 acres this year will make them rich, but whether you till and plant 1 acre or 1,000,000 the cost at the end of the day is really about the same, especially since to till massive acreage you need a massive tractor... Logging goes hand in hand really, except that us dump loggers don't have a set acreage to fall back on generally, so you have to go find more... and more and more, would be sweet to just camp out on 1,000 acres of decent forest and only cut 10-20 acres a year, just enough to buy groceries, diesel, and ignore the taxes... but realistically that isn't going to happen.

A 160 is a huge step up from a 120, IMO. They're a nice sized machine for certain things, road maintenance and handling small logs is one of them.

The one thing with economies of scale, I think, is that it's easier to manage. Hiring employees is pretty easy. I have enough cash flow to hire people to do what was my job early on. That frees me up to troubleshoot processes that aren't working, or explore more options. And once I hired a supervisor, I could go back to actually working when I wasn't troubleshooting, doing design work or out bidding.

Granted, it took a lot of work to get to that point, and a lot of burning the candle at both ends. And it's not for everyone.

 

[Skeans]

Lots of 120 shovels are running around, even some 135 no tail swing shovels are running around. One bonus to the smaller machines is the weight doesn't kill you to have the machine moved.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

 

[northmanlogging]

The 160's have a longer foot print then a 120, but they are not over 8'6" wide (usually) so I can get them hauled fairly cheap, and not involve a low boy or permits or chase cars.

The 160's are also heavy enough make stumping easy, while a 120 could do it just not as effectively.

Lots of older machines hear abouts, for right around 20k, just need to save my pennies and go get one.

Come to think of it there is a 120 or 140 hitachi? for 7k needs a new injection pump and they broke the bucket cylinder pulling it around... but How much is wrong with it is hard to tell. Its old, but I don't care about old... just not real keen on pouring money into a project that may or may not be scrap.

 

[Skeans]

One thing about the 120 or 160's they won't pick up a bunked log trailer with out a true shovel boom, a 200 has to have the cylinders moved back on the boom to unload a trailer.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

 

[northmanlogging]

Noted,

Still plan on using self loaders... Most of the straight truck outfits can't seem to answer the ******* phone anyway, or return any messages.

 

[Skeans]

I know down here there's a shortage of trucks. I've also been seeing a lot of trucks from up north hauling down to Longview now.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

 

[Metals406]

My brother bought a truck on the coast, and started hauling logs in Bonners Ferry.

The work is there for now.

 

[Metals406]

My youngest son, Gracin (12), went and got a few loads with a buddy of mine a few weeks ago.

 

[Metals406]

One thing about the 120 or 160's they won't pick up a bunked log trailer with out a true shovel boom, a 200 has to have the cylinders moved back on the boom to unload a trailer.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

In those cases, a guy just has the truck show up trailer off.

Not a real deal breaker fir a smaller shovel.

 

[Skeans]

In those cases, a guy just has the truck show up trailer off.

Not a real deal breaker fir a smaller shovel.

Yeah we do that with the hay racks, the only thing I can say is some places don't have turn around or pull through loops.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk