The truth about Auto-Tune and M-Tronic

[sunfish]

Husky xp saws have done me very well for many years!

Although I know Stihl makes good saws, there's no current Stihl models that I'd want to own right now.

 

[hamish]

The AT system rarely fails, would have been a great asset to this thread if the error codes were known.

Service bulletins are bulletins, just a heads up for those that work on the related product, its not a warranty issue unless the affected parts falls into the parameters. Its not a rocket ship its a chainsaw, AT and MT makes many forget the basics, and think aremegeddon computers.

At and MT saws are near self preserving, and will do near the impossible to save and compensate for another failed component on the saw, geesh no AT systems just let it toast itself within seconds to minutes.

The technical ability of the shop is the primary question, not the product. As we all know the 346XP and 026/MS260 are the biggest pieces of crap saws ever made.

 

[Hustihler]

I have some 346 xp's , and they been decent saws, but not near as reliable or well built as 026/ms260/ms261. i never said anything of them be junk, just that the quality and reliability is not there. as far as fools go, the biggest one here posts a bunch of pure BS here daily, and it is quite appearent that talks about saws way more than using them............:cool2:

"this is because a stihl would not be @ the dealer for 2 months. stihl actually tests saws before putting them on the market. how many threads on here have you read where a 261 or a 441 m-tronic have failed or had issues??? anyone??? not too many, because stihl doesn't put junk out on the market just to say they had it there first. say what you will, but sales numbers and marketshare, as well as build quality speak for themselves. i do own both brands btw."

Since you don't own a 562xp or a 550xp, but you do own some 346xp's that are not reliable, what problems did you have with your 346xp's that makes them so unreliable' and if they are so unreliable why do you have more than one? You did in fact call these saws JUNK, I highligted it for you, your words not mine. I get it, I really do, you like Stihl more than Husqvarna and that's ok, this would be a pretty boring site if everyone liked the same saws, but what I don't like is someone bashing products(550xp and 562xp) they've never used and passing that along as the gospel. If you try brand B or brand C and go back to brand A that's ok, because you tried it and it didn't fit your specific needs, but how can you pass judgment on something you've never even used and even go so far as bash the whole brand, doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[Hermann]

At and MT saws are near self preserving, and will do near the impossible to save and compensate for another failed component on the saw, geesh no AT systems just let it toast itself within seconds to minutes.

Why electronic tuning is the future, and while I probably won't buy another chainsaw without it, especially with ethanol fuel..

 

[Hustihler]

Hang on let me get this correct,your saw has been in the shop (Husky dealer) for over two months getting repaired ?.
If i took my Stihl saw to get repaired at a Stihl dealership i would be jumping up and down after a week.

I agree, over 2 months is a very long time to wait on anything, nonetheless chainsaw repairs, but I want to clarify a few things about my experience with my dealer. One thing I learned in my own transactions and from others on AS, is that everyone has different experiences with their different dealers. I'll give you a couple of examples that I've encountered. When I worked for my buddy Brian's Lumber/custom funiture company he bought a brand spanking new Stihl 660 from his dealer, 2 days later the chain tensioner broke, he took it in to the dealer and they wouldn't cover it under warranty(they claimed he was abusing the saw) and charged him $6 for the part that he had to install himself; you would think that on a purchase of a $1000 + tax, they could at least throw in a $6 part. At one of my local Stihl dealers I purchased a new FS 90 weedeater several years ago and about a month later I was having loss of power issues, so I took it in for warranty repair. This dealer blamed me for running ethanol fuel(which I don't, I have 2 gas stations within 5 minutes of my house that sell non-ethanol, one has 87 octane and the other sells 93 octane non-ethanol), they then blamed me for not running Stihl mix(another lie I was using the orange bottle Stihl oil, that I bought from them, mixed at 50:1), and finally blamed me for adjusting the carb(I never even touched the carb). The problem ended up being carbon build-up and they informed me to start using Stihl ultra in conjunction with their "ingenious 4-mix" engines. They tried to charge me for cleaning the spark arrestor and re-tuning the carb, I quickly reminded them that the unit was only a month old, under warranty, and that 3 generations of my family had been purchasing from said business, they finally saw it my way and no charge. It's not just Stihl dealers that I've had bad experiences with either, I once had a Husky dealer refuse to order me a 346xp even though I had cash in hand and even offered to pay up front before they ordered the saw. I have also heard countless horror stories of members on this very sight who were refused warranty service, or their dealer blamed them, or even had to contact corporate to get any resolution to their issues.
Now back to my dealer, when I first put my 562xp and 550xp into the shop they specifically asked me how soon did I need them back(I don't depend on my saws to make a living, to their credit, they did offer me a loaner saw if I needed it), my reply was I just want them fixed right the first time, and that I was caught up on my firewood cutting and that I owned a 346xp and Stihl 261 as back-ups(this same dealer sold me those 2 saws as well). Did I expect my dealer to take over 2 months to repair/replace my saws? The answer to that question is no, but I did get a brand new 2012 replacement 562xp and the 550xp was repaired(I'll get to test both saws out next week hopefully and update this thread accordingly), they also told me when I picked them up the other day that if I did have anymore issues with my 550xp, that they would replace that saw with a new one as well. Neither Husqvarna nor my dealer questioned me about my fuel mix, they didn't treat me like an idiot and ask "did I know how to properly start and restart my saw", all they did was ask me what was wrong and guaranteed they'd fix it to my satisfaction. They never blamed me once, never asked me to come out of my own pocket for repairs or service, and I never had to "call corporate" or threaten a lawsuit. All they did was ask me to give them some time to sort things out and wait.

 

[SawTroll]

I have some 346 xp's , and they been decent saws, but not near as reliable or well built as 026/ms260/ms261. i never said anything of them be junk, just that the quality and reliability is not there. as far as fools go, the biggest one here posts a bunch of pure BS here daily, and it is quite appearent that talks about saws way more than using them............:cool2:

There used to be a lot more problems with the MS260 (often carb or choke arrangement related) than there ever was with the 346xp - that one actually have been one of the more "bullet-proof" chainsaw models ever made. I don't really know about the 261 - it is a bit early....

 

[Hustihler]

Well earlier this week, I finally got a chance to run my saws for the first time since they came out of the shop. They(550xp and 562xp) ran and started(hot and cold) perfectly. Me and my father cut some pin oak laps for firewood, and bucked up a load of sawmill logs(poplar) for my Uncle. Both saws got a pretty good workout and both ran great all day long. My dealer and Husqvarna did a dynamite job of replacing/repairing my saws. Both are now very, very easy starting cold(2 pulls on choke and 1 pull choke off), warm , or hot(1 pull). My father(longtime diehard Stihl guy) kept commenting on how smooth and powerful the 562xp was. He even compared it to the the Stihl 440 that he fussed at me for selling. My father has no idea about auto tune, to him saws are just tools, so I thought his comments were pretty cool. My favorite quote of the day was also from my father, he asked me at the end of the day "Did you bring the 261(Stihl) with us today? ", we did and it never left the bed of my truck.

View attachment 266240View attachment 266241View attachment 266242View attachment 266243

 

[Patrus Monk]

550xp G AT under the lens

Spanking new 550 xpG auto tune came into my possession a few weeks ago. summer 2013. The saw had obvious issues as when I had it positioned starter side up, the engine would always bog and invariably die altogether (starved). When I cracked open the gas cap it was like getting too close to a black hole. Air rushed into the vacuum with a very audible (over the sound of the idling motorhead in my left hand) whooosssh.

The saw was under warrantly if course and the great guys at the sw shop tried to get me a new one from Husqvarna. I have only bought pro saws since the days BEFORE "XP" ever came around. I bought the first "XP"s available, decades ago. But know, Husqvarna would only pay for a major heart operation !

The saw had to be split and the mechanic, a good one, said it was challenging repair. The venting issue was reported to my mechanic and he immediately noticed the "breathing problem". There was a two-issue call back on that very saw! Ignition module and tank venting system.

Anyway, after this frustration is getting further ad further behind me let me tell you all what I think of the lil Prince now!

That 550XPGAT is the fastest saw I've ever had, and I have had plenty my friends. I own no wood stove but I have worked professionally with a saw over a span of 35 years now. A tad more. I'm not blowing any experience trumpet here, I am "underlining" the point that this is one friggin fast saw! And ergo-dynamic too. The gas level sight glass is cool as long as it does not get punched out limbing tress.

The hot start issues people talk about also plagued me but it seems to be one of the quirks of the hot saw and if you do the right procedure, there is seldom an issue: When hotstarting, pull out choke then gently place down one "click" to engage half-throttle (and turn off choke). It is such a small motor that I seldom decompress cylinder before pull start -- it is a "hot" start scenario, afterall.

It took awhile but I am growing to really really enjoy this saw. I'm felling, bucking and limbing softwood mostly, and mostly under 14inch DBH. There are a few idiosyncrasies to discover. As we get to know each other the Prince and I are becoming a formidable forestry duo! So after a bit of a rocky start, it's one-point-nine thumbs up.

P Monk

550xpGAT
OE372xp
576xpG non-auto
NE346xp
180 S project saw

 

[jdlbz]

They are awesome ATVs too. All of the newer ones I've seen have Rotax engines. The 650s will absolutely smoke a 750 Suzuki or Kawasaki ATV.

For longevity ill take that suzuki lol rotax just dont last long in the atv world.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Inter674]

I have detailed my issues with a 576 xp at elsewhere on this site but suffice to say the saw failed after 12 month, the dealer did not want to know, they had no capacity to diagnose nor repair the AT unit and quoted me 600 dollars for the parts - which they would not guarantee would fix it. I bought a new conventional carb and valve housing assembly from the US - Choo Choo Part for 100 bucks delivered and swapped out the valve housing. This fixed the problem for 30 bucks or so and I have a spare none AT carby to swap in if/when it fails again.

After years of owning trouble free Stihls this is the first and last time with Husky - mainly because of the stealer's attiude and lack of back up for this type of saw. I am pro tech and have worked on electronics for 30 years, but clearly the AT units are somewhat undertested and at least here in Aus, they are very under supported in the field.

PS the dealer basically told me that under warranty they swap the trouble saw for a new one and dump the problem saw in the skip because it is not worth the trouble and effort to fix a mystery e. problem when the saw only owes them 800 bucks or so - which Husky Aus will cover anyway. Outside warranty, well that is clearly a different problem and best then to make the customer go away quietely

 

[redninja]

It has been our experience that Auto Tune DOES NOT WORK AT ALTITUDE. This is a 455 Rancher with Auto Tune. We are just ordinary people who heat with wood. We've had the saw for about a year now, and it has cut ZERO truckloads of wood. We cut at 9,000 - 10,0000 feet or so. The saw will not run. I will spare you all the details. The saw has been back to the dealer numerous times, and the mechanics there have not been helpful. Each time they keep the saw for around a month, then when we try it again, nothing has changed; it still won't run. The only thing they ever said they actually did to it was run a couple of tankfuls of gas through it. It is in the shop right now. So we've been using our 20-year-old Stihl to cut wood. We had it overhauled (or whatever it is they do to old, ailing saws), and got it back from the Stihl dealer in about a week. It is running fine......So what recourse do we have? Husqvarna doesn't seem to have a customer service department on the website; just a forum to ask questions. The only suggestion we got there was to put in a new carb.....on a brand new saw. We are not mechanics! So, I will do more I-net browsing......Oh, I forgot to add....the dealership is at about 6900' elevation, and the saw runs fine there. So here we are burning truck fuel and hours of our time going up into the mountains just to have it fail....we've come home with an empty truck several times, but now we know better, and take the Stihl with us.

 

[hamish]

It has been our experience that Auto Tune DOES NOT WORK AT ALTITUDE. This is a 455 Rancher with Auto Tune. We are just ordinary people who heat with wood. We've had the saw for about a year now, and it has cut ZERO truckloads of wood. We cut at 9,000 - 10,0000 feet or so. The saw will not run. I will spare you all the details. The saw has been back to the dealer numerous times, and the mechanics there seem to be total bozos. Each time they keep the saw for around a month, then when we try it again, nothing has changed; it still won't run. The only thing they ever said they actually did to it was run a couple of tankfuls of gas through it. It is in the shop right now. So we've been using our 20-year-old Stihl to cut wood. We had it overhauled (or whatever it is they do to old, ailing saws), and got it back from the Stihl dealer in about a week. It is running fine......So what recourse do we have? Husqvarna doesn't seem to have a customer service department on the website; just a forum to ask questions. The only suggestion we got there was to put in a new carb.....on a brand new saw. We are not mechanics! So, I will do more I-net browsing......Oh, I forgot to add....the dealership is at about 6900' elevation, and the saw runs fine there. So here we are burning truck fuel and hours of our time going up into the mountains just to have it fail....we've come home with an empty truck several times, but now we know better, and take the Stihl with us.
Ha Ha, I just finished reading all the above posts, and, yes the dealer did treat us like idiots, asking if we were using the correct fuel, following the starting procedures, etc. Each and every time they ask this.

What colour if the air filter on your 455AT?

 

[Section VIII]

Wow...opcorn:

 

[Andyshine77]

redninja if you want advice, you're going to have to give us a little more info than, it doesn't work. So the saw doesn't start at all, won't idle or accelerate? 99% of the time when someone comes to me saying my saw won't run/start, it's flooded beyond belief. It's east to miss that first pop with some of these quiet newer saws.

 

[SCHallenger]

redninja if you want advice, you're going to have to give us a little more info than, it doesn't work. So the saw doesn't start at all, won't idle or accelerate? 99% of the time when someone comes to me saying my saw won't run/start, it's flooded beyond belief. It's east to miss that first pop with some of these quiet newer saws.

I think what Hamish is getting at is 455 is not autotune! AT is designated by 500 series, is it not?

 

[Andyshine77]

The 455 does have the AT option. I', guessing the air filter color may indicate weather the saw has AT, or maybe the production run.

 

[redninja]

OK, here goes...The 455 Rancher we have does have Auto Tune. We are using the fancy pre-mixed fuel, and following the starting procedures. The saw may start up easily, or may take several pulls. Once it's running, we are told by the dealer to run it at high RPM's for 2-3 minutes. HA...problem is, as soon as we touch the throttle, it dies. Will not run. Start up again, and it does the same thing, over and over. This is at 9000' and above. Take it to the shop, which is at around 6900', and it runs fine. We precisely explain the problem to them, and leave it there. We go pick it up, and are told "just run it". Well, OK. Except when we get back in the woods, the same exact thing happens. Back to dealer...they say they will run a couple tankfuls of gas through it. We pick it up and go to the woods again, and same exact thing happens. Back to the dealer...this happened like 5 times. All they tell us is "just run it"; they have never given any better advice. Last time we picked it up, before going to the woods, we used it at home (6800') for around 1/2 hour, then shut it off for around 20 minutes. After that, it absolutely positively would not start back up. Back to the dealer....Each time they keep it for several weeks or a month, and when we pick it up all they say is....you guessed it, "Just run it". So not only is it aggravating to have the saw not work, but it is aggravating that the dealer keeps it for weeks at a time, then all they do is tell us what good saws they are. They have never told us what the problem is, or what we might do to correct it...all they say is, ....(I'm not going to say it again). We are pretty sick of that dealer. In contrast, when we took our tired old (20 years) Stihl to a different dealer; they fixed it up in one week, and it runs like a top, at all altitudes. We are not mechanics (I dearly wish I was; trying to work on the dirt bikes, learning little by little) and thought by buying a new saw we would have something that would work without having to fool around with it. We've been cutting firewood for the last 17 years, all with the Stihl. When we were shopping for the new saw at the dealer (which has both Husqvarna and Stihl), the 455 was "on sale", and we thought the Auto Tune sounded pretty good.......

 

[Officer's Match]

Not much help here, but I'd say get a 441 M-Tronic. Mine has been capably disassembling trees for several years now. And it seems to like it in an evil sort of way.

 

[RedFir Down]

redninja,
Tell us about how you start and "warm" the saw up.
Once you initially start the saw do you leave it on high idle for 15-20 seconds or so before you start pulling the trigger? The saw needs a second to find "where its at".
I just cut 2+ cord the other day with my 562 (autotune) @ about 9000ft. with zero issues. The prior elevation it ran was 2200ft. Both my 550 and 562 act this same way... zero issues with elevation change. FWIW

 

[redninja]

redninja,
Tell us about how you start and "warm" the saw up.
Once you initially start the saw do you leave it on high idle for 15-20 seconds or so before you start pulling the trigger? The saw needs a second to find "where its at".
I just cut 2+ cord the other day with my 562 (autotune) @ about 9000ft. with zero issues. The prior elevation it ran was 2200ft. Both my 550 and 562 act this same way... zero issues with elevation change. FWIW

AHA....you may be on to something......my husband is the one who actually runs the saw, and I asked him this question......well, he doesn't remember exactly....I think he probably pulls the trigger right away thinking the saw will die out if he doesn't get it revved up right away.....when we get it back from the dealer, we will go back out into the woods and specifically investigate this...thanks !