The working man, and chainsaw thread!!!!!!!!!

[Brian13]

I have been MIA here. Nothign new to report. Just some stumps here and there and a few little tree jobs nothing worth while to post.

I do need some advice though as I have a harness old linemans and nice climbing spikes for shallow bark. My question is I need a rope like posted in the video that you can adjust on the fly as you climb as a linemans harness belt is not easily adjusted as it uses a buckle system since poles after so far up don't narrow quite as fast as a tree can change in a few feet.

What do I need to look for on that. Would be best to have a two rope system for going over branches so I am always roped around the tree as well for safety.

I have and use both wirecore with a rope grab and a rope with prussic for lanyards. They both have there advantages. I dont really like the way the rope grab adjusts and without a twisted cleavis it always seems to be twisted the wrong way. I really like how the prussic adjust on the rope lanyard and I like how I can throw it around a branch and have it swing back to me, but I have to be a lot more cautious with my had saw. Its just that much more rope I have to watch out for. The wirecore I dont have to worry about nicking it with my hand saw, and I think its easier to flip up the tree. So for me its about six and one half dozen on witch one I prefer. Here is a pic of the two I have, hope it helps.

.....OK Jim, I'm going to throw myself under the bus again (wait, I think I just did:msp_confused. I'll be the first to admit I've got a lot to learn about all areas of tree work, especially names of cuts. I thought a Humboldt was having the angle cut of the face pointed down (on the stump side)? I also thought a Dutchman was when you cut through the back of part of the face cut (leaving no hinge wood when you make your back cut)? Go ahead take your wacks, I should know this stuff by now. :bang:.....

Your right about the dutchman and humbolt. According to Jerry Baranek the way you finished your face cut is the best way to fix miss matched cuts. It actually looked like a block face cut, which if I understand it right gives it a more flexible hinge and will hold it to the stump a little longer and keep it on track. To me it looked like your face cut came out fine. I do have one question though, how come your dont limb the tree on your way up? I have always been told you want everything below you clear so it dosnt deflect or get hung up on the way down. Im not saying your wrong, just wondering why you did it that way. I have a ton yet to learn myself, I still require strict supervision LOL.

 

[NHlocal]

Your right about the dutchman and humbolt. According to Jerry Baranek the way you finished your face cut is the best way to fix miss matched cuts. It actually looked like a block face cut, which if I understand it right gives it a more flexible hinge and will hold it to the stump a little longer and keep it on track. To me it looked like your face cut came out fine. I do have one question though, how come your dont limb the tree on your way up? I have always been told you want everything below you clear so it dosnt deflect or get hung up on the way down. Im not saying your wrong, just wondering why you did it that way. I have a ton yet to learn myself, I still require strict supervision LOL.

Ayuh, I just took a quick look in "The Fundamentals of General Tree Work". I had forgotten how much information was in that book. I'm over due for a reread. I limbed the tree only on the back side and left all the limbs on front side to get as much weight as possible onto the front side. The tree had a slight bow in the trunk that made it a bit of a challenge to read the lean. It seemed to have a "slight" lean in my favor. The wind was also blowing from hard gusts down to almost calm. Both good reasons to take extra care to get this tree on the ground safely. I needed to top the tree to cause as little damage to the surrounding trees as possible and to fit it into the available drop zone. When I limbed the top I also stacked some of the limbs I cut onto the limbs on the front to put as much weight in my favor as possible. The wind was gusting so hard I nearly bailed out of the tree twice to come back and take it on a calm day. I knew I could drop it if it was calm. I was confident the calm between the gusts was long enough to safely drop it. I couldn't have asked for it to go any better. If you watch the Working Climber DVD series Gerry Beranek teaches how to "switch the favor" of a tree by cutting limbs from the back side and stacking them in the limbs on the front. Another great source of information. :msp_thumbup: Watch the DVD and read the book if you're able.

Work safe. :msp_thumbsup:

 

[struggle]

Brian do you use both those at in the sense you carry one with you as say you climb so high and need to bring your line over a branch you don't want to cut and then use the other line to go over said branch clip in and then remove the other line until you meet you next obstical?

I am going to look into this book you guys mentioned. Most of anything I would climb would be for tree removal near structures. I am to big to be climbing of much for tree trimming so it will pretty much be straigth up top and section coming down.

Tomorrow I have a maybe 40' max spruce tree to take down and wind is going to be south at 30mph ( in my favor as the top needs to go to the north. The tree is somewhat protected from the wind so I will drop branches as I go up and then top it and come back down so I should not need to cross branches but if I should then I would need soem type of secondary safety line.

I am not really up to understanding the exact terms you use though as I have not been around climbers using the terms like I know you guys understand.

Keep in mind I am using lineman stuff in the safest manner ( if I thought for a moment I was in danger I would not be doing this) possible but my bigest hold back time wise is not having the abillity to adjust for trunk size as I go up or down any great distance. I watched a Petzl video linked from Baileys and that system looks slick but the price is up there.

My biggest concern is that one would lean back and not be latched in and the need for two lines seems of the most importance.

 

[2yb3]

I am only supposed to buck and cut small crap for now, well partner/ coworker gave me a few trees to try, watched my cuts, walked away after and said keep going. He said he doesn't have to worry about me, im not gonna go into any crazy stuff or fall something im uncomftorable with. anyways got to do a few boundarys/ LOS (lines of sight) some good sized pine and spruce in here.

looking towards the road start of line

haha swedish saws and german axes, nothing better

access road boundary

 

[NORMZILLA44]

I am only supposed to buck and cut small crap for now, well partner/ coworker gave me a few trees to try, watched my cuts, walked away after and said keep going. He said he doesn't have to worry about me, im not gonna go into any crazy stuff or fall something im uncomftorable with. anyways got to do a few boundarys/ LOS (lines of sight) some good sized pine and spruce in here.

looking towards the road start of line

haha swedish saws and german axes, nothing better

access road boundary

Welcome my brother! Glad to meet you, and nice pics, and Ax. Brian, Randy and Shane hello as always:msp_thumbup: Yeah that book is the holy grail, and Beranek is one of the best, ever if you ask me. He's my hero, love to meet him, and shake hands. He was doing tree work, when tree work wasn't cool. Guy is great:msp_thumbsup: I mostly use the Humbolt, at times conventional. Block out was very common for redwoods here. Minimized breakage, and best steering. Like you say Brian on the stump longer. Dutchman is alterations in the face, manipulating holding wood as well. Kerf, Step, Swing, and I think now walking or soft dutcmen, refers to swing maybe. Not an expert on Dutchmans, but do play with em, and fascinated by them. The swing, and soft have similar effect I believ, but a little different method to my knowledge. Jim may refer to a nickname, not sure like here when I was young, the Humbolt was refered to by some, as the west coast face, or style.

 

[2yb3]

why thank you norm i got a really nice spruce down at the end of the day today, partner came up the line as i was putting in wedges, gave me a thumbs up, saying was a nice fall and my best stump of the day, she ate my 18 bar this spruce. Hands down the most fun I have had in a long time, just straight cutting pine and spruce. so fun to have the tree go where you want it and have a good stump. anyways night, take i easy. got about 600m to a km and a bit to cut tomorrow.

 

[NHlocal]

why thank you norm i got a really nice spruce down at the end of the day today, partner came up the line as i was putting in wedges, gave me a thumbs up, saying was a nice fall and my best stump of the day, she ate my 18 bar this spruce. Hands down the most fun I have had in a long time, just straight cutting pine and spruce. so fun to have the tree go where you want it and have a good stump. anyways night, take i easy. got about 600m to a km and a bit to cut tomorrow.

2yb3 welcome, good to have another fellow sawyer posting on the thread. Looks like you've got a bit of work ahead of you.
Great pics, look forward to seeing more. :Eye::Eye:opcorn:
Work safe. :msp_thumbsup:

 

[NHlocal]

Welcome my brother! Glad to meet you, and nice pics, and Ax. Brian, Randy and Shane hello as always:msp_thumbup: Yeah that book is the holy grail, and Beranek is one of the best, ever if you ask me. He's my hero, love to meet him, and shake hands. He was doing tree work, when tree work wasn't cool. Guy is great:msp_thumbsup: I mostly use the Humbolt, at times conventional. Block out was very common for redwoods here. Minimized breakage, and best steering. Like you say Brian on the stump longer. Dutchman is alterations in the face, manipulating holding wood as well. Kerf, Step, Swing, and I think now walking or soft dutcmen, refers to swing maybe. Not an expert on Dutchmans, but do play with em, and fascinated by them. The swing, and soft have similar effect I believ, but a little different method to my knowledge. Jim may refer to a nickname, not sure like here when I was young, the Humbolt was refered to by some, as the west coast face, or style.

Ayuh, Norm that is a good book to learn from. Have you seen any of his DVDs?, good stuff. most of what I know came from him. It's getting "late", gotta get the coffee going and get to work.....:hmm3grin2orange:

 

[NORMZILLA44]

why thank you norm i got a really nice spruce down at the end of the day today, partner came up the line as i was putting in wedges, gave me a thumbs up, saying was a nice fall and my best stump of the day, she ate my 18 bar this spruce. Hands down the most fun I have had in a long time, just straight cutting pine and spruce. so fun to have the tree go where you want it and have a good stump. anyways night, take i easy. got about 600m to a km and a bit to cut tomorrow.

Anytime my friend Does sound like fun for sure too. Randy no never seen the dvd's I will have to get them. We are headed out in the am, to take down, well fall two oaks.

 

[2yb3]

2yb3 welcome, good to have another fellow sawyer posting on the thread. Looks like you've got a bit of work ahead of you.
Great pics, look forward to seeing more. :Eye::Eye:opcorn:
Work safe. :msp_thumbsup:

thanks not a sawyer yet lol, this is just a rare perk of the job, we rarely get to saw nice stuff like this or saw often really. But all the crap jobs and bs with work is worth it for just a few days of straight cutting out of a month. Today near the end of the day, partner radios from truck to finish where i am at, i radio back "can you see me, well look at that big ****er behind me hes on line, im right here at him, can i drop it then pack up" and well my partner is also close to my family, and i have this girl on the go to say, well i wont tell him or family her name or anything about her yet, well that bastard blackmails me says "her name, or no cutting at all" damn bastard, I ended up giving in. my one weakness and he knows it now.
edit- lol didnt get near the 600m mark (600m total including what got done today which was not very much lol) today lol tomrow should be smoother
i didn't get a pic of it before i dropped it, will grab some pics tomorow of it lying down, stump pic doesn't do it justice. partner ended up walking down the line to watch me fall this, looks at the tree, looks at my 357 with 18" B&C its like 4 inches short lol he gets a grin and asks "wana test out the new saw?" he just bought a 576xpg 26" bar yesterday, dropped a small pine and that was it so far, lol i grab the 576, so nice. the spruce takes the whole bar minus a couple inches, ended up dropping her where i wanted, left a tad too much holding wood when i started wedging, had to end up giving it a trim to the back cut and away she went. cheap wedges. the sound she made when she came down was so nice. easily 40+m tree, looks small in pic but a good sized spruce (considering we are between the prairies of grand prairie and edmonton)

 

[Brian13]

Ayuh, I just took a quick look in "The Fundamentals of General Tree Work". I had forgotten how much information was in that book. I'm over due for a reread. I limbed the tree only on the back side and left all the limbs on front side to get as much weight as possible onto the front side. The tree had a slight bow in the trunk that made it a bit of a challenge to read the lean. It seemed to have a "slight" lean in my favor. The wind was also blowing from hard gusts down to almost calm. Both good reasons to take extra care to get this tree on the ground safely. I needed to top the tree to cause as little damage to the surrounding trees as possible and to fit it into the available drop zone. When I limbed the top I also stacked some of the limbs I cut onto the limbs on the front to put as much weight in my favor as possible. The wind was gusting so hard I nearly bailed out of the tree twice to come back and take it on a calm day. I knew I could drop it if it was calm. I was confident the calm between the gusts was long enough to safely drop it. I couldn't have asked for it to go any better. If you watch the Working Climber DVD series Gerry Beranek teaches how to "switch the favor" of a tree by cutting limbs from the back side and stacking them in the limbs on the front. Another great source of information. :msp_thumbup: Watch the DVD and read the book if you're able.

Work safe. :msp_thumbsup:

I have the Working Climber I and II, very good videos. Very good to have the visual with the Fundamentals of General Tree Work. Seems like they go together. Time to watch them again, but the wife really hates them:hmm3grin2orange:. I know what your saying on changing the favor, but it looked like you left all the branches down below your top. That is what I was wondering about.

Brian do you use both those at in the sense you carry one with you as say you climb so high and need to bring your line over a branch you don't want to cut and then use the other line to go over said branch clip in and then remove the other line until you meet you next obstical?

I am going to look into this book you guys mentioned. Most of anything I would climb would be for tree removal near structures. I am to big to be climbing of much for tree trimming so it will pretty much be straigth up top and section coming down.

Tomorrow I have a maybe 40' max spruce tree to take down and wind is going to be south at 30mph ( in my favor as the top needs to go to the north. The tree is somewhat protected from the wind so I will drop branches as I go up and then top it and come back down so I should not need to cross branches but if I should then I would need soem type of secondary safety line.

I am not really up to understanding the exact terms you use though as I have not been around climbers using the terms like I know you guys understand.

Keep in mind I am using lineman stuff in the safest manner ( if I thought for a moment I was in danger I would not be doing this) possible but my bigest hold back time wise is not having the abillity to adjust for trunk size as I go up or down any great distance. I watched a Petzl video linked from Baileys and that system looks slick but the price is up there.

My biggest concern is that one would lean back and not be latched in and the need for two lines seems of the most importance.

I use one or the other, which ever on strikes my fancy that day. I use my climb line as the second lanyard. To start I would probably get one with a rope grab, you can get them with wirecore or regular rope. Either or will work better than the linemans strap. I started with the same thing, it made things easier with the right lanyard.

 

[struggle]

Splain what you mean by climb line? That is what I don't get I guess right now.

I am going to order a wire core one I think from Bailey's. If you have a minute or two take a look and see what you recommend:msp_confused: There is more than one choice. Petzls a little high for me right now:msp_mad:

 

[NHlocal]

.....branches on the back.....

I have the Working Climber I and II, very good videos. Very good to have the visual with the Fundamentals of General Tree Work. Seems like they go together. Time to watch them again, but the wife really hates them:hmm3grin2orange:. I know what your saying on changing the favor, but it looked like you left all the branches down below your top. That is what I was wondering about.



I use one or the other, which ever on strikes my fancy that day. I use my climb line as the second lanyard. To start I would probably get one with a rope grab, you can get them with wirecore or regular rope. Either or will work better than the linemans strap. I started with the same thing, it made things easier with the right lanyard.

.....Ayuh, I have the series I and II DVD's, as soon as I can afford it I will order the series III set, great videos. My wife don't like 'em much either. :hmm3grin2orange: Here's a couple pics showing a bit better what I cut off the back of the tree, the first is a good pic of the lower section of the trunk.....(left a few stubs)

.....here's a pic of the top section of the trunk.....

.....I took every branch off the back of the tree except for the very tip top.....:msp_scared:

.....I also use a wire core as my primary flip line.....:msp_thumbup:
Work safe. :msp_thumbsup:

 

[NHlocal]

Splain what you mean by climb line? That is what I don't get I guess right now.

I am going to order a wire core one I think from Bailey's. If you have a minute or two take a look and see what you recommend:msp_confused: There is more than one choice. Petzls a little high for me right now:msp_mad:

OK Shane here's the best pic I could find to help explain a little bit and try to answer your question. I have my flip line around the trunk of the tree and hooked into the D rings, and my "climb line" (which is the 120ft rope I climb with) around a sturdy branch a bit above me, and that end of my "climb line" is clipped onto the rope bridge of my climbing harness. I have 10ft - 12ft pulled out of the rope bag that is clipped onto the belt of my climbing harness. When I climb up to where my "climb line" is (taking out the slack as I go) I will unclip my flip line and reset it around the trunk above the branches I am getting close to. Then I will unhook my "climb line" and toss it over another branch above me or set it around the trunk and use it just like my flip line. As I come to branches I want to climb past I will go back and forth between my flip line and "climb line" and ALWAYS be safely tied in to the tree. :msp_thumbup: If you don't have a D ring or rope bridge in the front of your harness you can tie/hook a second flip line into the D rings on the side of your harness . Take a close look at the pic, hope that helps.
Oh yeah, the reason I have a 120ft climb line hanging off my harness?, it makes coming down out of the tree SOOOOO much easier. :msp_w00t:

Almost forgot, check out Sherrill tree and WesSpur, they've got some pretty good wire core flip line kits and free shipping if the order is over $99/$100. That Climb right kit Bailey's is selling is what I am using, but I changed out the rope grab for a "friction hitch" (prusik). That way I can adjust it even under tension.
Work safe. :msp_thumbsup:

 

[NORMZILLA44]

Hello my good friends, Randy very good break down on the two tie off points. Today the working man got his ass kicked, I am beat up, stoved up, and hurting. We went up against two Oak trees who, well were alot more involved than a picture will show. Nick, and Frank were there, two very good friends, and partners. Frank is Nick's father in law. Nick went up and had to take some big limbs off the back sides of these oaks. The one nearest the street the first one, had a hard lean toward the road, and insulated power lines. The other the bigger one, had a lean set back opposite of falling direction. So bull rope, and snatch block rig and pulled. All went well day started bad, forgot coffee cop, turned around down the street went back home. Then check fuel light went on, and forgot needed gas. I thought already things are going smooth. Arrived at job, and we had stuff cut and down already, and a car came up, and looked and wanted to pull in, and before I could say something, peeled out, gave me a hard look, then walked up driveway. Found out job owners son. I had to go talk with him, that did not make me happy, as the day started shiatty! He apologized, and we stayed at work, some big wood, a ton of brush, and only a 6 in chipper, but all Frank could get at rental yard he works at, and it was free, but useless! Long hard day, but a good one, job I bid cheap guy said he was broke, but at the end was so impressed with our work, insisted he up the price, and gave a 400$ tip, and found out from his neighboor he is just cheap but rich, so she gave him a hard time after she talked with us, cool lady all went well.

 

[Brian13]

I dont use spikes, so in order to climb I use a rope to get me to the top. The rope go up around a branch in the tree and back down to me, and I am able to use that to climb up and into the tree. I can also walk out to the tips, and basically move anywhere in the tree. I use the lanyard to help hold me in position, and its always a good idea to be tied in twice when cutting. Hope this pic gives you a good idea of its application.

Glad in the end everything went well. Sometimes the day starts off rough and finishes strong, sometimes it starts off rough and just goes downhill. Sounds like things picked up a little for you. And it really irritates me when rich people complain and try to get things for nothing. I know they didnt get rich by giving it away, but screwing the working man isnt right. I work at a golf course, and my tree work is on the course itself. Yesturday I was approached by one of the residents that lived on the fairway I was working on and asked if he could get my opinion on some trees. He had already hired a tree service and was wanting an arborists opinion on what should be done. Basically he wasnt confident who he hired knew what he was doing and wanted my boss who is the arborist to guide the crew he hired. Drives me crazy.

 

[NORMZILLA44]

Randy very good on the tie off. I know I said it last nigh but looked at pics again I was real tired. John uses that practice too. Works very well, and very safe. Brian thanks, and good to see you. Yeah being a cheap skate, and playing both sides of the fence is not good buisness. I have walked away from more than one person or two who conducted themselves like that. One of the last tried what we would have done right, and price we gave was beyond fair. Took are words, and thought heck I will do it myself. Oops they put there tree right through the power lines. I told em it needed to be topped LOL!

 

[NORMZILLA44]

One more pic from yesterday, though I posted it but didn't.

 

[NHlocal]

Hello my good friends, Randy very good break down on the two tie off points. Today the working man got his ass kicked, I am beat up, stoved up, and hurting. We went up against two Oak trees who, well were alot more involved than a picture will show. Nick, and Frank were there, two very good friends, and partners. Frank is Nick's father in law. Nick went up and had to take some big limbs off the back sides of these oaks. The one nearest the street the first one, had a hard lean toward the road, and insulated power lines. The other the bigger one, had a lean set back opposite of falling direction. So bull rope, and snatch block rig and pulled. All went well day started bad, forgot coffee cop, turned around down the street went back home. Then check fuel light went on, and forgot needed gas. I thought already things are going smooth. Arrived at job, and we had stuff cut and down already, and a car came up, and looked and wanted to pull in, and before I could say something, peeled out, gave me a hard look, then walked up driveway. Found out job owners son. I had to go talk with him, that did not make me happy, as the day started shiatty! He apologized, and we stayed at work, some big wood, a ton of brush, and only a 6 in chipper, but all Frank could get at rental yard he works at, and it was free, but useless! Long hard day, but a good one, job I bid cheap guy said he was broke, but at the end was so impressed with our work, insisted he up the price, and gave a 400$ tip, and found out from his neighboor he is just cheap but rich, so she gave him a hard time after she talked with us, cool lady all went well.

Thanks Norm, I appreciate that comment. Great pics, sorry to hear the day didn't start out so well for ya'.:frown: Sounds like it ended up pretty good. :smile2: I like the pic of your rigging set up. :msp_thumbup:
Work safe. :msp_thumbsup:

 

[NHlocal]

Randy very good on the tie off. I know I said it last nigh but looked at pics again I was real tired. John uses that practice too. Works very well, and very safe. Brian thanks, and good to see you. Yeah being a cheap skate, and playing both sides of the fence is not good buisness. I have walked away from more than one person or two who conducted themselves like that. One of the last tried what we would have done right, and price we gave was beyond fair. Took are words, and thought heck I will do it myself. Oops they put there tree right through the power lines. I told em it needed to be topped LOL!

.....again, thanks for that good comment Norm. Most times I don't comment on questions like that because I know there are guys here that are far more experienced and far better than I am, but I am getting more confident in most of what I'm doing. Still would like to find an experienced climber to work with. It's those "little things" that make it so much easier and safer a more experienced climber can point out that a newbie will almost never learn on his own.....:msp_confused: Love that last pic Norm, it's a keeper!
Work safe. :msp_thumbsup: