Think you've rigged big wood? Try this on for size......

[DR. P. Proteus]

Dano

The two lines run through the twin bollards and are then joined by an aditional single line held by the groundworker. So the ground guy just holds one line that controls and keeps the two lines running simoulaneous.....you don't need two guys. Probably sounds complicated, but it isn't. I don't like it much either, but sometimes you might need to stop a huge piece suddenly. That's when its useful.

Never tried that double block thing in the video either. Doesn't really appeal.

Reg

Did you know that the word " fanny" in America means butt, ass, heiney? But in England it mean the other thing?

 

[DR. P. Proteus]

I've got ISC 3/4" & 5/8" blue blocks, but I wonder if they would withstand the forces of 24" dia Bull Pine @ 20' long?

Probably not, even with my 5/8" Stable Braid.

3/4 inch blocks combined with 3/4 stable and a fixed bollard. If you are in doubt with that then you should rethink I think.

 

[DR. P. Proteus]

Proteus, You are one good reason why I don't bother with this site much anymore. There is little doubt that I was pulling off rad schite while you were still in diapers..or hell, conceived, for all I know or care.

You are not saying very much with that statement.

 

[DR. P. Proteus]

3/4 stuff is rated to break a 45 thousand pounds. I am not sober enough nor smart enough to transfer that into tons ( much less a metric ton) without a little time but I know that if you are stuck on that WLL you should probably sub your work out to China.

Bog:
In the USA that means a wetland
In England that means a public bathroom

 

[hseII]

3/4 inch blocks combined with 3/4 stable and a fixed bollard. If you are in doubt with that then you should rethink I think.

Thank You.

 

[Reg]

Reg

Did you know that the word " fanny" in America means butt, ass, heiney? But in England it mean the other thing?

I dont like the word, the way it sounds, however it's meant. Never have. Not saying you shouldn't use it, but I won't be.

 

[DR. P. Proteus]

I dont like the word, the way it sounds, however it's meant. Never have. Not saying you shouldn't use it, but I won't be.

Well, its interesting to say the least you have to admit.

 

[rbtree]

3/4 stuff is rated to break a 45 thousand pounds.

Depends on the line..... Most polyester double braid lines designed for tree work have a stated tensile strength of ~20,000 lb... minimum tensile of Stable Braid is 17300....but Puget Sound Ropes' product is 19300..

And their Plasma line, is rated at 68.800 MTS..... and D/T composite, the line we used in the rigging, is 29,000 tensile at 9/16th--after the splice... this line is full static, which uses Plasma HMWPE fibers for the core, with a polyester sheath. PSR, a division of Cortland Cable, pioneered the rope making process, which others, like Samson, have copied.

So, it helps, when stating "stuff" as in the above quote, that you have your facts in line.....

 

[rbtree]

I've got ISC 3/4" & 5/8" blue blocks, but I wonder if they would withstand the forces of 24" dia Bull Pine @ 20' long?

Probably not, even with my 5/8" Stable Braid.

Agreed. A section that size would weigh 4000 lb... even at 3000 lb.... but, of course, no way could a load that size and weight be negative rigged.... The forces, even if the piece only ran a few feet, would approach and exceed 60,000 lb due to the center of mass falling 20 feet plus the amount the cut end drops.....

Tip tying, as in my vid, is the only way to rig long heavy loads.....

Dano

The two lines run through the twin bollards and are then joined by an aditional single line held by the groundworker. So the ground guy just holds one line that controls and keeps the two lines running simoulaneous.....you don't need two guys. Probably sounds complicated, but it isn't. I don't like it much either, but sometimes you might need to stop a huge piece suddenly. That's when its useful.

Never tried that double block thing in the video either. Doesn't really appeal.

Got your email. Bummed you'll be across the Big Pond when I'm next in Victoria. Gareth Tudor-Jones and Tony Tresselt presented their double block rigging at the Boise ISA conference. Set up properly, with blocks attached offset a bit from the cut, there's limited contact between the block and tree... and no block to block contact. The forces at the lowering device are reduced 50% and at the rigging points a max of ~37%. These numbers are significant! Anyone who doesn't comprehend the benefits needs to take another look. Of course, I know you would understand.

That said, I'd imagine that your twin rigging systems method would be capable of handling heavier loads, due to the combined size of the lines and bollards....

 

[defensiblespace]

I've rigged some pretty big stuff using similar techniques, but 17s? Holy crap! Could you have just used a crane instead? I'm assuming yes since the log truck was able to get in there.

 

[JRoland]

I've rigged some pretty big stuff using similar techniques, but 17s? Holy crap! Could you have just used a crane instead? I'm assuming yes since the log truck was able to get in there.

I was wondering that too- if you could have gotten a crane in where the log truck was, don't see why not, would have saved a lot of climbing...was it just not as cost effective?

 

[Zale]

I think he said earlier that he underbid it.

 

[DR. P. Proteus]

Depends on the line..... Most polyester double braid lines designed for tree work have a stated tensile strength of ~20,000 lb... minimum tensile of Stable Braid is 17300....but Puget Sound Ropes' product is 19300..

And their Plasma line, is rated at 68.800 MTS..... and D/T composite, the line we used in the rigging, is 29,000 tensile at 9/16th--after the splice... this line is full static, which uses Plasma HMWPE fibers for the core, with a polyester sheath. PSR, a division of Cortland Cable, pioneered the rope making process, which others, like Samson, have copied.

So, it helps, when stating "stuff" as in the above quote, that you have your facts in line.....

Yeah, that's the stuff.

 

[rbtree]

Yes it was..and thank you......

I've rigged some pretty big stuff using similar techniques, but 17s? Holy crap! Could you have just used a crane instead? I'm assuming yes since the log truck was able to get in there.

No access for the crane..due to a grade transition. Plus there wasn't enough width for the crane to have set up.... and the crane cost would have been too much. By the way, we rigged two 21 footers.....

Had I brought in the Hobbs (Dunno why I didn't--former ITCC champ Dan Kraus will lend it to me anytime---he sold it to me years ago, then bought it back after he started his own biz...) And, if I'd had a higher gin pole rigging point, all would have gone smoothly.....

 

[DR. P. Proteus]

Did some lowering today for a change. I don't often have the opportunity to hone my lowering skills.


I am pretty sure the logs in this video could have been handled with just a big block and a big rope.

Yes, the whole shock load philosophy is true, however, there really isn't a whole lot of shock load to it. When the logs come over it only takes subtle nuance to control it while one lets it fly into the ground.

The rope is running, not suddenly getting locked up and the entire weight of the load in put on it. Well, at least it should be. With the right equipment and operator it should very well be something pretty readily achievable.

 

[rbtree]

Ummm, if you're referring to my job, there would be no rigging that could withstand the forces of butt hitching (only) those sections. If you doubt that the forces could approach 60000 lb, then get a load cell and test it yourself, using small logs, but long ones.......keep in mind that the center of mass of a 20 foot log is going to travel at least 25 feet before coming into the rigging.

 

[DR. P. Proteus]

Ummm, if you're referring to my job, there would be no rigging that could withstand the forces of butt hitching (only) those sections. If you doubt that the forces could approach 60000 lb, then get a load cell and test it yourself, using small logs, but long ones.......keep in mind that the center of mass of a 20 foot log is going to travel at least 25 feet before coming into the rigging.

I dunno but I did say I saw a one legged man lower stuff like that with just an old bollard and 16 strand so I still don't know and hope I never have to try... again.

 

[rbtree]

I dunno but I did say I saw a one legged man lower stuff like that with just an old bollard and 16 strand so I still don't know and hope I never have to try... again.

Yeah, sure.....

 

[DR. P. Proteus]

Yeah, sure.....

Yeah is right!

Old guy used this nicked up old 16 like he was to stubborn to get a new one until I broke it. I recall the strap that held the bollard on the tree was about halfway cut through as well and the thing was actually bent from getting smashed.

The rope finally broke when I was using two pulleys, one of them a steal CMI and a nick caught the cheekplate and tore.

Oh sure, we would all be like, " Do you think you could get a new rope!?" But the old man was actually very proficient. Watching him from either above or on the ground I could see how he really didn't let the full weight of the load shock the rigging. Long thick hardwoods. He let it run. Simple.

It was good to know that whatever you could manage to cut would go flying away from you at a high rate of speed. Whatever happened next was not my concern but I liked to watch.

The old man lost his leg in a chipper so he had an actual wooden leg and they say he lost that in there too.

 

[jefflovstrom]

Yeah is right!

Old guy used this nicked up old 16 like he was to stubborn to get a new one until I broke it. I recall the strap that held the bollard on the tree was about halfway cut through as well and the thing was actually bent from getting smashed.

The rope finally broke when I was using two pulleys, one of them a steal CMI and a nick caught the cheekplate and tore.

Oh sure, we would all be like, " Do you think you could get a new rope!?" But the old man was actually very proficient. Watching him from either above or on the ground I could see how he really didn't let the full weight of the load shock the rigging. Long thick hardwoods. He let it run. Simple.

It was good to know that whatever you could manage to cut would go flying away from you at a high rate of speed. Whatever happened next was not my concern but I liked to watch.

The old man lost his leg in a chipper so he had an actual wooden leg and they say he lost that in there too.

So the guy that can not keep his legs out of a chipper is your rope guru?
Jeff