Thoughts on mechanical split tails?

[Brendon Phillips]

I got the chance to use the new Petzl ZigZag working on a double rope system this week and LOVED it. Far superior to the Blakes hitch and prusiks I normally use. The only thing I don't like is it can't be installed midline and can only be used in a double rope system. Has anyone used any of the other ones that can any be installed midline? Like the Unicender? If you haven't seen either of them, here ya go.

http://www.petzl.com/us/pro/descenders/verticality/mechanical-prusik-arborists/zigzag

http://www.sherrilltree.com/Unicender-with-Tether-and-Prusik#.U1KkbvldWSo

 

[treevet]

climb on it daily and been on it for well over a year. I now own 2 of them. Drt for me but...

 

[Brendon Phillips]

That's a cool setup. I never understood what the rope wrench does though. It looks like it adapts the zigzag for use with srt, but I really don't know. Is it easy to ascend/descend with it in that setup? Btw- im sure you know, but the first gen zigzags were all recalled for safety issues. You said you've used it over a year, and that's in the time frame. Just FYI, hate for you or anyone to find out the hard way.

 

[jefflovstrom]

I wonder what tree gear will look like in about 5 years from now.
Ah, the new knots and new mechanism's that make this job easier,,,$$$$$$$
Jeff,,

 

[Peter.s]

I was at the local dealer and was thinking of getting what I would need for DRT but saw the pricetag and decided to wait till another time...
friction hitch for me

 

[Brendon Phillips]

Yeah, it's expensive. But after climbing with one, as soon as I have the money I'm getting one of them. Makes it that much better. The only issue I had was leaning way out to cut something, grabbing the line with my left hand to stabilize like I normally do and accidentally descending a foot or two. Makes you poop yourself a little the first time. It releases a lot easier than a friction hitch.

 

[treevet]

yeah but as soon as you get off the release, you know (after climbing with for quite a while) that it is definitely gonna grab. Not so with rope hitch all the time. Esp a non tds (tied dressed sat in) blakes or taughtline.

 

[jefflovstrom]

yeah but as soon as you get off the release, you know (after climbing with for quite a while) that it is definitely gonna grab. Not so with rope hitch all the time. Esp a non tds (tied dressed sat in) blakes or taughtline.

you are over thinking this,,
Jeff

 

[Brendon Phillips]

Oh yeah. But for that split second it's pants crapping terror not being used to the zigzag.Haha. My Blake's hitch doesn't give that easy. I'm obsessive about properly dressing it.

 

[Brendon Phillips]

you are over thinking this,,
Jeff

You can never over think properly dressing and setting your knots. The one time you don't is the time you don't go home.

 

[treevet]

he you jeffy.

 

[treevet]

hey Jeff...notice our post counts? toldja

 

[jefflovstrom]

hey Jeff...notice our post counts? toldja

lol, yeah you did. I have been working 6 days a week, 10 to 12 hour days for quite awhile and and will be for quite awhile more.
Jeff

 

[NYTREECLIMBER]

climb on it daily and been on it for well over a year. I now own 2 of them. Drt for me but...View attachment 345371

That looks pretty slick. I'm loving the zigzag now I'm gonna have to try srt

 

[treevet]

rope on metal...way better than rope on rope similar to a porty (rope on tree vs rope on metal)

 

[treevet]

I think resistance comes in the form of the huge revenue generated by hitch cords that could be lost were this to become mainstream.

 

[Hoowasat]

Has anyone used any of the other ones that can any be installed midline? Like the Unicender?

Hi, neighbor! I haven't tried one yet, but the Hitch Hiker (link below) has caught my attention since it's good for both DRT & SRT. While I really like the idea of how the Zig-Zag works, having to thread my rope through it is a deal breaker. Similarly, reading about the wear a Unicender suffers when used a lot is also a turn off for me. Most of my SRT climbing is using the RAD system with a Petzl I'D.
http://www.treestuff.com/store/catalog.asp?item=2171

 

[imagineero]

I've tried a few, but the thing they all seem to have in common is that they sit too close, and they take up too much space on the rope. I like the action of reaching up and hauling down on the rope with both hands, then sliding my hitch up, or using a slack tender. I just can't get used to having the device so close to me. I generally don't climb on a VT for the same reason.

There are work arounds, but they generally involve a lot of fussing. You can use a leash, or the adjustable system to have it set where you want but then recrotching is a pain. For the 'longer' devices like the zig zag and unicender, if you have them on a leash they're too far to reach to descend. I really like the action of the zig zag, and the action of the spyderjack too. They're both very positively engaging, silky smooth, excellent friction control and to my mind good value for money compared with the number of prusiks you'd go through (friction cord is not cheap in aus!) but for me none of the devices have nailed it yet. The zig zag especially is a pain in the ass with having to thread the rope through, a double pain if you like spliced eyes as I do! Triple pain if you do a lot of crane work and ride the ball, that's a lot of rope threading!

That zig zag/rope wrench SRT setup looks like a pain. I never took to the rope wrench.

 

[imagineero]

I never understood what the rope wrench does though.

Devices designed for DdRT and hitches have way too much grip, you can't release them on SRT. They grab just fine on SRT, but you can never release them. The rope wrench takes about half the weight off the hitch/device, so you can use it SRT. Think of it as 'the other side of the rope'.

 

[treevet]

I've tried a few, but the thing they all seem to have in common is that they sit too close, and they take up too much space on the rope. I like the action of reaching up and hauling down on the rope with both hands, then sliding my hitch up, or using a slack tender. I just can't get used to having the device so close to me. I generally don't climb on a VT for the same reason.

There are work arounds, but they generally involve a lot of fussing. You can use a leash, or the adjustable system to have it set where you want but then recrotching is a pain. For the 'longer' devices like the zig zag and unicender, if you have them on a leash they're too far to reach to descend. I really like the action of the zig zag, and the action of the spyderjack too. They're both very positively engaging, silky smooth, excellent friction control and to my mind good value for money compared with the number of prusiks you'd go through (friction cord is not cheap in aus!) but for me none of the devices have nailed it yet. The zig zag especially is a pain in the ass with having to thread the rope through, a double pain if you like spliced eyes as I do! Triple pain if you do a lot of crane work and ride the ball, that's a lot of rope threading!

That zig zag/rope wrench SRT setup looks like a pain. I never took to the rope wrench.

You can set it up so it doesn't sit so close with another beaner. I use a swivel captured eye alum. snap. Also you don't have to "thread" it ever but just once and leave it on your line. Works fine with a crane. Just untie the attachment and tie a half hitch above the zz, after you pull it through the crane ring. I DON'T want a mid line installable piece like the uni. I like the fact it ain't ever coming off until you take it off.