Thoughts on running saws empty?

[KRP]

I thought this thread was about running saws empty.

 

[Bubster]

The canned fuels are all akylate. I buy the four stroke stuff and mix in my own oil. I don't and will not use a ester based oil for storage either.

Just wondering if you guys in Montana ( and surrounding states ) can't find non-ethanol gas. We have 4 stations here within half an hour drive that sell both 87 and 93 octane non ethanol, but it is about $1.09 higher. I have looked at the Stihl Moto-Mix many times, but just can't seem to justify paying $32 for a gallon of gas, unless of course good gas just aint available in your area.

 

[ballisticdoughnut]

I thought this thread was about running saws empty.

So do you run yours until they’re empty?

 

[mbrick]

As soon as I hear the first hiccup I stop and refuel. It makes restarting a 1 pull effort instead of several pulls to re draw fuel through the filter and lines and into the carb.

For long term storage I normally drain the tank but don't specifically run the carb dry. I think it may be better to keep the gaskets and diaphrahms wet?

 

[bwalker]

On the ester based oils. You run them when your using the equipment then switch to mineral base before storage? Or do you not run ester at all?



Just wondering if you guys in Montana ( and surrounding states ) can't find non-ethanol gas. We have 4 stations here within half an hour drive that sell both 87 and 93 octane non ethanol, but it is about $1.09 higher. I have looked at the Stihl Moto-Mix many times, but just can't seem to justify paying $32 for a gallon of gas, unless of course good gas just aint available in your area.

I never run a straight eater based oil.

I can and do buy premium E-free for normal use. Only use canned fuel for storage. E free still doesn't store very well.

 

[bwalker]

As soon as I hear the first hiccup I stop and refuel. It makes restarting a 1 pull effort instead of several pulls to re draw fuel through the filter and lines and into the carb.

For long term storage I normally drain the tank but don't specifically run the carb dry. I think it may be better to keep the gaskets and diaphrahms wet?

RE gaskets and diaphragms that's my current theory.. not saying if it's true or not, but it makes me feel better.

 

[MacAttack]

I tend to agree, carb diaphragms don't seem to like to be dry. They last a long time if you keep em in gasoline.

 

[Smitty Smithsonite]

I remember hearing of guys burning up dirt bikes running them out of fuel when I was a kid in the late 70's - 80's. I've owned quite a few premixed 2-stroke dirt bikes, & ATV's, plus chainsaws, push mowers (Lawn Boy!), and string trimmers ("weedwhackaahs", for my MASShole bretheren) and have run ALL of them out of gas countless times. 45+ years of being around them and owning them, I have yet to burn one up or wear one out doing this.

The saw I use the most around the yard is a cheap Husqvarna 141 (Home Depot special) I bought in '05. Still has STRONG compression, just as good as the day I bought it. My Echo SRM-210 weedwhacker still has 135 psi compression COLD after 19 years of HARD use around the yard. Every time I use it, I run the tank dry. Takes 1.5 tanks or so to do my whole property. No abnormal crank noises from worn bearings, either.

You definitely don't want to keep trying to go full bore as it's bogging. Maybe that's why I've never damaged one - I've always either switched to reserve on my off-road machines, or refilled the tank on the O P E once bogging starts.

 

[Jasonrkba]

I'm guessing you guys are saying once they have seen fuel you never want them to dry out? I've removed so much varnish over the years I just do everything I can to eliminate the possibility. The problem I run into, usually I'm whipped after a day of cutting and forget or I'm just being lazy and leave gas in it. Often I will remember a week later and just dump the gas out.... Just being honest. But the ones I run dry usually give me less trouble when I go back to them after the sitting for a year.

 

[820wards]

Running empty while idling is not a problem, I do it with all my saws before storage. I don't recommend empty while at WOT in a cut. First time may not hurt but you run risk of lean condition under a load - not good.

I do the same with my saws. I find I have less problems starting them later. j-

 

[Sandhill Crane]

YouTube, Chickanic, suggest for long term storage to run dry, add 2-cyle oil to the fuel tank and pump primer bulb until full of oil and carburetor diaphragm is coated. Which follows what mbrick in post #24 is saying. To start, drain oil and add 2-cycle mix, pump primer bulb circulating fuel thru carb and back to tank. May be a smokey start, but will eliminate replacing dried out fuel lines, carb diaphragm and primer bulb. Not what the original post was asking but similar territory.

 

[501Maico]

I found something that I can't explain on an early or mid 80's? points ignition 041 Farm Boss that I bought in 2014. The original owner who is not mechanical or a saw person bought the saw new, ran less than a tank through it, found it to be too heavy and put it in his shed until 2014. I pulled the carb diaphragm apart expecting the worst, but instead found it to be shiny new and filled to the top with what looked like clean motor oil or honey colored 2T oil. The tank was dry but was probably stored with fuel in it and there is no primer bulb. Fuel line was rock hard. The only thing I can come up with, fuel was left in the tank and summer heat slowly forced it into the carb, where it eventually evaporated and left the oil behind.

 

[buzz sawyer]

I found something that I can't explain on an early or mid 80's? points ignition 041 Farm Boss that I bought in 2014. The original owner who is not mechanical or a saw person bought the saw new, ran less than a tank through it, found it to be too heavy and put it in his shed until 2014. I pulled the carb diaphragm apart expecting the worst, but instead found it to be shiny new and filled to the top with what looked like clean motor oil or honey colored 2T oil. The tank was dry but was probably stored with fuel in it and there is no primer bulb. Fuel line was rock hard. The only thing I can come up with, fuel was left in the tank and summer heat slowly forced it into the carb, where it eventually evaporated and left the oil behind.

Not surprised if they were using fuel with ethanol. Was the diaphragm rubber or mylar?

 

[buzz sawyer]

YouTube, Chickanic, suggest for long term storage to run dry, add 2-cyle oil to the fuel tank and pump primer bulb until full of oil and carburetor diaphragm is coated. Which follows what mbrick in post #24 is saying. To start, drain oil and add 2-cycle mix, pump primer bulb circulating fuel thru carb and back to tank. May be a smokey start, but will eliminate replacing dried out fuel lines, carb diaphragm and primer bulb. Not what the original post was asking but similar territory.

Seem like overkill to me, but I use only non-ethanol fuel. If the fuel evaporates in storage, the oil would be left. The Stihl MS 361 manual simply says to run it empty - no mention of what kind of fuel used.

 

[david newbie]

Not sure if this thread is relevant to long term storage bu it made me wonder if there is a benefit to storing saw with good fuel mix and occasionally pumping the purge bulb to put gas into the carb and or pulling it over a few times?

 

[oldbuzzard]

i didn’t see any mention of auto tune saws. I try to never let my auto tune saws run dry as, in my experience, it can make the saw tune way rich before they quit and then they can be hard to restart. I know some guys will say this doesn’t happen but I have definitely had it happen to me on several occassions.

 

[cookies]

Saw carbs self drain back into the tank. I simply shake the saw around a few times then dump the fuel tank out then throw fresh mix in. . carb gaskets/diaphragms absorb something from the gasoline that evaporates out over time leaving them deformed and hardened. Older carb diaphragms (pre 88?) all seemed to be thicker/heavier/more robust than more modern plastic/fiber versions and less likely to set up hard in a deformed shape.
I have a can of amsoil storage fogger , the stuff works pretty good at coating everything from the carb throat all the way through the muffler keeping it juicy.

 

[Jasonrkba]

We have a shrink wrap machine at work. Wouldn't that be something.

 

[AlotL1keVegas]

I have always emptied out my fuel tanks, and then ran the machine until it would sputter and die, for long term storage. I always mix my gas a hair on the rich side, so I'm not concerned with leaning out one of my saws or other 2 stroke. Besides, the synthetic oils these days are so good, running lean for 15 seconds won't hurt it. Atleast that's my opinion.
I have done it like this for years, and I have never had any issues.

 

[vizette]

Pre ethanol I used to throw my string trimmer in the shed in the fall, and in the spring add a fresh mix and it'd start up (sometimes begrudgingly) and be running fine again after burning off the old mix.

After the only thing I could get was ethanol, I either make sure to run whatever piece of two stroke every month or so, or dump out the gas and run it dry. Even with ethanol stabilizers the diaphragms harden up, fuel lines harden up, carb gets plugged up and have to pull the needles and clean it out...
In other words, leaving gas in there to keep the carb parts "wet" is not a thing with ethanol (in my experience) unless you're talking short term, couple months at most. More than that and it will evap/varnish and cause all sorts of problems. Trufuel on the other hand, I wouldn't think anything of leaving it for an extended period. Not a sponsor, don't even use it, but my BIL loves it because it's trouble free.

I don't care about the politics of ethanol gas, but what it's done to two stroke engines is criminal. The repair shops probably love it though!