Timber Sales

[Gologit]

https://apps.idl.idaho.gov/timbersale/Search.aspx

Can somebody explain how timber sales work? I have a 1 ton truck, a trailer and a chainsaw. I'm in need of some logs to build my house. I was thinking that if I could buy the timber, log it myself, use what I need and sell the rest that would be a good way to go.

I spent 1 summer cutting tees with a chainsaw for a tree service so I have some experience. Enough to keep me safe anyway.

I spent a semester in Canada a few years back learning how to timber frame, build with logs, and stonework. So I can handle the building of the house. Paid for most of my college building timber frame and log homes during the summer so my skills ain't too rusty.

My idea is that with a saw mill anything I don't need for the house I can sell to pay for plumbing fixtures, electrical, solar, etc.

So how do timber sales work? Can I just put in a bid like on Ebay or is there some sort of permit or qualification I need?

Plenty of ambition here, just need the 411 on how the process works. :greenchainsaw:

Get in touch with the USFS, BLM, whoever owns the timber in your area. Bidding on timber sales can be an involved process and the requirements can vary widely from area to area and sale to sale.

If there are loggers in your area you might check with them about just buying logs from them. Logging your own stuff, unless you have someone to show you the basics, can turn out badly real fast. If you're working steep ground you'll need a skidder of some kind. A loader comes in handy, too.

If you do find timber you might also consider hiring someone to do the falling and skidding for you on shares.

 

[windthrown]

Guys around here log and mill their own wood all the time. At my ex's place, a neighbor has a bandsaw mill and has logs felled and deliverd to him for pretty cheap. Another neighbor down there cleared a half acre and milled the doug fir himself and built a house with it. Up here last month I bought an 044 from a guy that had logged his landlord's property last fall and he had the cut lumber curing in a barn. It was a series of nice stacks of clear 2x4s through 4x12s.

You can buy truck loads of logs for pretty cheap. The pond price of logs is low right now, even for top grade fir. Mills here are selling off-shore, so you could probably buy from them direct as well, and just move it to your site with your truck/trailer. As Gologit says, buying stands of trees is fairly complex. If you buy the stand in place, you have to pay the 6% federal taxes on it when it is logged. It can also go bad if you do not have the sawyers, loaders and everything in place. Also you mention selling what you do not need. Is that the leftover milled lumber? If that is the case, the market for that stuff right now is dead. Most mills here are idle. I know of a lot of dimentinal lumber sitting in a lot of yards, barns and drying sheds.

As an aside, most construction workers I know are unemployed now. Like my nephew down in Bend. You can get labor for fairly cheap now to build. Having built several houses myself, and having lived offgrid, and on a large 100+acre place way out in the boonies? You will need more than ambition and time. You will need help. You cannot do it all yourself. Try as you may, it is a lot more work than you may think.

 

[stihlkicken]

wells

your method for getting water seems kind of shaky.after all the work your going to put in that place,a plentiful and clean water source would give you much peace of mind.I usually drill a 10 inch hole down to hard rock,set 6 inch casing down to that, than go inside the 6 inch with a smaller hammer to get to the good clean water in the rock.solar pumps have come along way in the last few years too. good luck,dan.

 

[RandyMac]

In the past, I found that the FS had a few very small timber sales, stuff they wanted gone, but most were too small to interest a logging Co. I bid a buck over minimum, got about half of them. The last one was hazard tree removal in a campground, was easy money.

 

[FIRESMOKE]

Around here, PA if you you want to bid on public timber sales you have to show proof of logger certification, and proof of insurance. Also alot of the sales if not all require road building, erosion controll, and site clean-up and seeding when done. Also all the sales have a cut off date when you have be finished. Some have strict guidelines as to the hours and days you can harvest timber. Now if you can find a sale on private gruond it,s a whole different ballgame. You will still have to deal with the environmental side of things but probably can get away from the certification and elaborate road building. I admire your ambition but please review all your options and really think it through before you sign the dotted line. Good luck on your venture.

 

[olyman]

and your well idea--is called a sandpoint around here--and are only good for abot 80-100 feet--depending on---will NOT be able to keep up with a drilled larger well, and you have to hope the land lay is right down where the point is for good flow--as they are shallow--they go dry sometimes, and you can add on more pipe and drive down further----I F, the water table aint too low------

 

[slowp]

There are 3 types of Federal Sales. We don't do many small ones here, unless it is just firewood and doesn't require any equipment. That's because we are a Northwest Forest Plan forest and have to do surveys on all the critters and plants that might be unhappy.

Find out if your ranger district can do a "green sheet" sale. They might have an area already picked out where they sell house logs. There'll be less stipulations than a regular timber sale.

Just for fun, here's a comparison. A green sheet sale or even a 2600-3 sale will have a few pages in the contract. A full blown 2600-6 timber sale will have over 100 pages. The latter requires you to put down a sizeable bid guarantee BEFORE you bid, then, if you get it, a down payment, a performance bond, and then before you log, you need more advance deposits.
All of that money having to be had before a tree is dropped seems to stop the little guys from biddiing. That was not the intent, you can thank the purchasers who overbid and then defaulted on timber sales in the 70's and 80's for that.

The downpayment is "released" and can be used as payment when 25% of the VALUE of the sale has been removed and paid for.

Then, if you fail to log it in time, you are liable and will have to pay the difference if the unlogged stuff is resold and the price bid is lower. You lose your performance bond.

Then if you get in an oral bidding process, the bigger outfits will make you pay dear for it, or maybe not. If not, there's something wrong with the sale and they don't want it. They'll let you get stuck with it, if you want to outbid them.

So, if you want house logs off federal land, I'd ask about a house log area first.

 

[captainsteep]

sounds just like me 5 years ago, did the same thing, other than did not have to find the logs, we were cutting a big white pine sale, I got to pick all my own logs out of the loads, all the butt logs i sawed into 6x8 cants, second log was sheeting boards,moulding,ect.top logs were sawed into inside boards, took 9 triaxle loads @ 4000 ft a load. Got a ban mill from Quality Ban Mills and went to work. I paid 26 cts @ ft. for the logs,and then did not charge the mill for trucking and skidding and cutting, Nice Log home,a lot of hard work.good luck my friend.

 

[Taxmantoo]

River rock? Fireplace? Kaboom?

 

[ak4195]

I helped build a 2 story house on full basement down in Valdez back in the early'90's,3 sided logs,easily 2200 sq ft.The foundation was already in,the bank note stated that we had to have it done in 5 wks.
We humped A** to get it done,5 of us,7 days a week during the winter,no boom truck,woodmizer mill on site.
The logs were bought/delivered by the truck load sight unseen from an area approx 90-110 miles away.Of course surveying and handpicking and felling your own logs would be very satisfying,but the FS sale route probably wouldnt be worth the headache/heartache.
If you really want to go this route,how bout advertising and paying by the boardft.If you think about it the logistics will soon get overwhelming,certainly not impossible,but throw this ontop of your mini -ex hrs,which may take longer than you think by yourself.
Which will entail but not limited to foundation excavation(grubbing too?),pulling grade,water line excavation,backfilling.
An old family friend set a water well by himself a few years back.He fabricated a tripod out of sch40 pipe(perhaps 10-12ft tall) with a suspended pulley,with a ****** head mounted on an engine,he hammer drove a sandspike perhaps 25-30 ft through a gravel river bank.
Unfortunately I wasnt there to watch,but for Stan(who was in his 60's) Im sure it was no big deal.I cant imagine trying to do it with a mallet,I dont care how big.
I have banged away on 4 inch plastic utility conduit with a sledge hammer,trying to drive it under road grades,even in easy ground,it aint that easy(major understatement!!).
Theres almost nothing that will power and drive cant accomplish,everything you want to do has been done before.Ask more,read more..
Oh dont forget to post pics too from time to time!

work smarter,not harder
ak4195

 

[spencerhenry]

bidding on timber sales isnt hard, just remember you are dealing with the government. for small scale, personal use ask the usfs about a "green sheet sale" . a green sheet sale is for the exact purpose you are needing logs.

 

[Jacob J.]

Find out if your ranger district can do a "green sheet" sale. They might have an area already picked out where they sell house logs. There'll be less stipulations than a regular timber sale.

Just for fun, here's a comparison. A green sheet sale or even a 2600-3 sale will have a few pages in the contract. A full blown 2600-6 timber sale will have over 100 pages. The latter requires you to put down a sizeable bid guarantee BEFORE you bid, then, if you get it, a down payment, a performance bond, and then before you log, you need more advance deposits.

So, if you want house logs off federal land, I'd ask about a house log area first.

+1- This is the best way to get houselogs. Here on the Umpqua National Forest we do what's called "Special Use" permits for houselogs. Up on the Diamond Lake District they have large tracts of second-growth timber located in meadow restoration ecology sites where they want the second growth timber gone. So for an $80 permit you get to haul away a 'medium' trailer-sized load of processed houselogs (this was usually 6-8 logs up to 22 feet long, 14" and under on the small end.) I was involved in the meadow restoration project from 1997-2002 and I saw some guys haul 14-18 trailer loads of logs out over the course of that time, all at $80 on each permit.