Tires vs Tracks on a skid steer

[dboreham]

What are your guys thoughts on the matter?

I own a track machine and have 10ac forest in snow country. I have neighbors with wheel machines. In general you want a track machine for off-road work. Wheels will get stuck much easier in wet conditions, reducing the length of your season. However, tracks are not good on sloping ice. If your site is flat, shouldn't be a problem, but any kind of grade will risk a slide with a track machine on ice. Wheel machines with chains will bite into ice. You can mount studs on tracks but it's painful to do, they fall out, weaken the tracks and scuff up any concrete you run over.

 

[pdqdl]

Then there are the switchable wheeled units from Bobcat, my favorite style.
A300, A330
They can either skid steer or 4-wheel-steer, according to the operator's selection. In 4-wheel steering mode, they have more traction than a tracked unit, because all four wheels are always pulling in the direction you want to go. They also don't tear up the ground and the tires last vastly longer, too.

If you need to spin on a dime, they can do that too, along with all the usual drawbacks of skid steer operation.

Unfortunately, Bobcat seems to have discontinued that product line. Fabulous machines to run, I don't know why they never caught on with contractors. The cost to operate was lower than for any similar sized Bobcat, on account of the reduced wear on tires and driving surfaces. Plus... They just put more power on the ground in the direction you wanted to go. My A300 is useless in skid steer, by comparison to 4-wheel steering mode. And it is identical in performance to an S300 when in skid-steer mode.

 

[The Shooters Apprentice]

I think I’m pretty well set on the Kubota SVL65. I was thinking about the 75, but the 65 is cheaper and lighter, so easier to haul, plus has a much lighter PSI foot print, and should handle everything I need to do.
Now just need to figure out how to come up with 60 grand.

 

[les-or-more]

I put a few hundred hours on an svl75 and really liked it, was looking for a 75 or 95 when the Deere I bought popped up.

Not a big fan of the swing out door, I liked the over head door of the Kubota more. The Kubota had sticks and foot pedals the same as the Deere I bought. I loaded a truck with a half dozen pallets with an ssv65 that had pilot controls, what little time I had running it they seemed ok. I ran a JCB 270 for a while I found it to be like the Bobcats, either on or off with no fine control.

 

[CJ1]

Small tires in the woods is worthless. Ever seen a skidder with small tires? No just no. CJ

 

[pdqdl]

I think I’m pretty well set on the Kubota SVL65. I was thinking about the 75, but the 65 is cheaper and lighter, so easier to haul, plus has a much lighter PSI foot print, and should handle everything I need to do.
Now just need to figure out how to come up with 60 grand.

The dealer will probably be happy to arrange financing. All you need to do is figure out a working budget for the purchase.

 

[GeeVee]

ASV is now back to being owned by the guys that started the company, and they are in Minnesota/Canada. The ASV Positrack was the orginal Forestry Mulcher, and, had great snow capability. I used a ASV 4810 in my Beach renourishment and Dune Restoration, as they could climb and push sand like no other. No dozer could climmb the grades I needed to install, no other tracked machine could either. Whe nI went to buy, I invited the three player out there at the time to bring me their demo units- and over the phone, they were confident. On the site, they loaded up and went home after lunch, no sale. I was not fond of the PosiTraks track tensioning and as I was leasing from a Cat Dealer, the machine had been beat on too.

When I bought my large acreage, and I had sold my landscaping business and my environmental engineering and construction business, I had kept a few machines, but most equipment and tools also got sold. I kept a 10,000 hour Bobcat rubber tire 763 (Kubota motor) I never had to oopen the motor or hydraulic pumps, for my own self.

I was looking at its 7th set of tires needed, and had been getting stuck in the clay-ey sand at my ranch, and if i got to the Gumbo, i was just stuck-stuck. I got real good at using cable and chain around trees and pulling myslef out without a winch or come-along, but that got tired long before I got good at it. I fortuantely had a good friend with the same machine, and he brought it out with fresh meats all around, just so I could see if fresh rubber would make the difference, or was I going to be getting a new machine. The minute the lugs loaded up, he was as stuck as I could get, and maybe did it sooner, with the way the new tread tore up the ground faster than my baloney skins.

So- I went hunting up ASV, and since it had been a few years, I was delighted they had improved on the PosiTrak by introducing the RC Series. I ended up buying the smallest RC 30, because a really wanted to keep the trees, and not blow 10-15' wide trails. I had a JD 644 I used to clear the driveway and cabin area, and other 20' wide driving parking trails/spaces and move mountains of dirt, but that thing was 28,000 # and also did not like Gumbo. I kept the Bobcat for a while, but it was just sitting so It got sold.

I would not own another tire-d machine. If ICE is going to be an issue, I think there are counter measures you can live with to get the high floatation and traction in snow and mud or, dirt work. I have driven mine inside buildings, and all over flat concrete, maybe I am just good, but I dont have a bucking bronco issue, ever, not on concrtete or asphalt or in dirt. With tires on short wheelbases, I'm still good, but you can't be in a hurry...

 

[davidprivett]

you know there is a option of OTT, you get a wheeled machine and place the OTT system over the tires and you got tracks. It might be something you want to look at. I have a 2017 wacker-neuson sw-20 with tires , I got it at a real good price. so I am thinking about doing the ott thing. Oh and by the way it has pilot controls and once you get use to them they are nice. Just different from foot controls, some just do not like change.

 

[les-or-more]

Are you aware that Cat offers nearly the same if not the same undercarriage in their 7series?
They are a pain in the rear to put tracks on.

 

[les-or-more]

you know there is a option of OTT, you get a wheeled machine and place the OTT system over the tires and you got tracks. It might be something you want to look at. I have a 2017 wacker-neuson sw-20 with tires , I got it at a real good price. so I am thinking about doing the ott thing. Oh and by the way it has pilot controls and once you get use to them they are nice. Just different from foot controls, some just do not like change.

I have not operated a wacker neuson their specs list them as electric controls. It is possible they have better feel than the EH controls I have ran. One of the guys I work for on a regular basis has a 259d cat and a 257c, the controls are night and day different. I would much rather operate the 257 with true pilot controls than the EH controls of the 259 most of the time. Loading trucks and things that do not require fine control the EH controls are nice because of features like return to dig. There are pro's and con's everywhere here. I admit I am likely in the minority in that I prefer foot controls, mostly because of thousands of hours in a new holland tire machine cleaning barns, I can and do operate pilot and EH controls on a regular basis, they all shine in certain ways.
The OTT work pretty good for a lot less money than a track machine.

 

[catbuster]

View attachment 966820
I put a few hundred hours on an svl75 and really liked it, was looking for a 75 or 95 when the Deere I bought popped up.
View attachment 966821
Not a big fan of the swing out door, I liked the over head door of the Kubota more. The Kubota had sticks and foot pedals the same as the Deere I bought. I loaded a truck with a half dozen pallets with an ssv65 that had pilot controls, what little time I had running it they seemed ok. I ran a JCB 270 for a while I found it to be like the Bobcats, either on or off with no fine control.

As far as EH controls go, I kinda live by the dozer mindset, you gotta feel it in your butt over relying on feedback through the controls.

Are you aware that Cat offers nearly the same if not the same undercarriage in their 7series?
They are a pain in the rear to put tracks on.

The 2X7 series is out of production, Cat no longer offers a true multi terrain loader. I had a 287C that was a great machine. The ASV undercarriage was not fun to work on, but it was fairly easy to learn the tricks to make them work. They float over everything. It’s great.

 

[GeeVee]

Oh right i forgot, torsion axles. Nice ride compared to a baby buggy tire-d machine. ASV's suspension is a mojor plus, I can grade blindfolded, just feeling the bucket edges, and the machine attitude through my butt in the seat.

I do alot of fine grading at sunset or in the dark with the lights, but thats just me.

 

[softdown]

My Takeuchi 12 track loader performed very well over the weekend. Nothing but snow work. 12,000 lbs and newish tracks gives a lot of traction.

But I need high flow and spent my money. Thinking of the Kubota SLV90 as more affordable than the 95.

People say the smaller machines offer a lot more flexibility - generally speaking.

Tracks are generally better in mud, woods and snow FWIW. No flats either.

 

[hoskvarna]

you know there is a option of OTT, you get a wheeled machine and place the OTT system over the tires and you got tracks. It might be something you want to look at. I have a 2017 wacker-neuson sw-20 with tires , I got it at a real good price. so I am thinking about doing the ott thing. Oh and by the way it has pilot controls and once you get use to them they are nice. Just different from foot controls, some just do not like change.

I have a set of ott tracks I am going to sell if interested
Pm me if so


Sent from Hoskey hilltop

 

[The Shooters Apprentice]

The dealer will probably be happy to arrange financing. All you need to do is figure out a working budget for the purchase.

The dealer here is 5-6 months out when I talked to them today. I’ll probably have to buy one in the states and have it shipped up, or drive down and get it.

 

[catbuster]

My Takeuchi 12 track loader performed very well over the weekend. Nothing but snow work. 12,000 lbs and newish tracks gives a lot of traction.

People say the smaller machines offer a lot more flexibility - generally speaking.

The type of rubber track makes a lot of differencw in the snow, as well. The blocky, very durable tracks that do well off the road are not nearly as good as the finer tread that can be purchased when working in snow. They also do a lot better in sand, where the larger grains will clear themselves of the tracks. In a clay the finer treads are terrible, pack up and you may as well just be running slicks.

I disagree, in general, about smaller machines being more flexible. The large frame machines, short of the monsters like Bobcat’s T870 or Case’s TV620, aren’t really that much bigger than the “small” frame machines, and can go in almost all the places the smaller machines can go. Again, I know I sound like a Cat fanboy, but their large frame machines are shorter in length than their competitors, and it may be biasing my opinion here. I know the Bobcat T770 I had on rent last summer felt super long compared to the 299 I had on the same site. But, that’s just how I feel.

 

[The Shooters Apprentice]

I’m not a fan of the cats I’ve run at all since they have next to 0 visibility out the back window.

 

[davidprivett]

I do not know how old you are ,but JCB and Volvo(which JCB makes) offers a side door on their skid steer and tracked machines and they are easy to get in and out of compared to others. Single lift arm so one side has very good views out of . other side not so much. but it is something to consider. I have a 2001 JCB 214 backhoe and it has been a solid machine thru the years.

 

[softdown]

The type of rubber track makes a lot of differencw in the snow, as well. The blocky, very durable tracks that do well off the road are not nearly as good as the finer tread that can be purchased when working in snow. They also do a lot better in sand, where the larger grains will clear themselves of the tracks. In a clay the finer treads are terrible, pack up and you may as well just be running slicks.

I disagree, in general, about smaller machines being more flexible. The large frame machines, short of the monsters like Bobcat’s T870 or Case’s TV620, aren’t really that much bigger than the “small” frame machines, and can go in almost all the places the smaller machines can go. Again, I know I sound like a Cat fanboy, but their large frame machines are shorter in length than their competitors, and it may be biasing my opinion here. I know the Bobcat T770 I had on rent last summer felt super long compared to the 299 I had on the same site. But, that’s just how I feel.

I couldn't be further removed from expertise myself. Just watched a BUNCH of youtube vids and more flexibility with smaller machines was discussed. The podcaster runs a landscaping company. A smaller machine in back and side yards would be advantageous. Sometimes a couple inches makes all the difference (that's what she said).

My 2012 Tak is only ~74" wide. Very unusual in the 12,000 lb. class of skid steers. Due to DEF etc they are now up to ~13,000 lbs. Bobcats T870 may have a larger frame than others but its weight is ~ the same as the biggest by Cat, ASV, Tak, Deere and others.

I consider Bobcat at times. So many for sale and so many Bobcat specific attachments. No adapter needed. They had a good rep prior to the Doosan purchase. Their reliability rep has suffered. I think mostly due to issues with emission related technology.

When did DEF become a requirement on engines over 74hp?

 

[pdqdl]

I’m not a fan of the cats I’ve run at all since they have next to 0 visibility out the back window.

I rented a Cat last week: visibility is so poor that they mounted a camera that comes on every time you go backwards. Without the camera, you cannot see anything at all.
My operator backed into a truck, claiming the camera made him misjudge the distance.