Toppers

[Jlarnard]

Everyday as I drive it seems I see a new tree topping job done. I am sure this is exageration but still.... I am amazed that either they don't know or they don't care that it is not accepted. I have talked to a crew several times
from out of town, when I saw them topping. It was getting pretty ugly. You know... the first time I coached em, the second time I had a document to give them, the third time my family was threatened.
The customers too, it's like they have this out of controll ball of leaves next to the house, but they defend the practice.
Any wisdoms out there?

 

[teamtree]

We battle this all the time. In my opinion you can only do so much to educate a customer on what is right and wrong. If they own the tree they can care for it how they want. I know it is wrong and I tell my customers this is not the way to go about trimming and caring for their trees. When you tell them you will not do it and ask them to find someone else, they probably will find someone. Sometimes they take the education to heart and you have a good customer on your hands.

On the other hand when you are facing slow times, it is hard to turn down the money. I have topped trees in the past and if necessary, I will do it again if the customer is willing to pay for what THEY want after being educated.

It is not the end of the world...it is just a tree....or is it?

 

[tomtrees58]

that's normal 4 fla educate your customers i have a tree service in st pete and 1 on L I N Y tom trees:smoking:

 

[Nailsbeats]

I believe the correct term is "crown reduction", lol.

 

[Rftreeman]

I tell them it's not the right thing to do but if they insist then I'm going to the bank with their check at the end of the day. I use to ask them to call someone else and walk away from these jobs but I have to keep the business running...................I'll bet there are a whole bunch of people here who claim to never do it but I'll bet they have and will again....

 

[tree MDS]

Crown reduction differents than topping. I worked for an arborist in florida and we did it right - the others? mostly not so much. Back then they called it a class 4 crown reduction, usually by one third or so. The "hatrackers", would just have to go up so high and start stubbing back to the desired hight. It was pretty bad - thats not to say that we didnt do a few, it was the worst, stubs bonking thier way down off the trunk blasting off chunks of cambium, lol. Our usual work was a PITA so occaisionally when we got a hatrack we loved it. I was young then, I wouldnt bother with that now - especially with my name on the door.

 

[Nailsbeats]

Thanks for raining on my parade MDS, Look what you made me do.

And yeah, nobody on this site or affiliated with it in any way, has ever or will ever top a tree. That's a well known fact. lolololo.......

 

[tree MDS]

Thanks for raining on my parade MDS, Look what you made me do.

And yeah, nobody on this site or affiliated with it in any way, has ever or will ever top a tree. That's a well known fact. lolololo.......

Sorry for the rain nails. As far as tree toppers go I'm sure there are some real hackers on this piece, big time, lol. I got some hard core pruning to do on the job I'm on now, it sucks I'd rather just to removal but you gotta provide full service so pole saw here we come - 90' big red oaks. Did all the takedown today.

 

[lxt]

Funny thing is storm hit PA as im sure elsewhere too and most of the people im meeting with want their trees topped, a gent just today said to me look at my trees all busted up.....neighbor had his "topped/hatracked" and theres no mess in his yard!!

I told him......wait 1-2yrs down the road when we have a storm on a smaller scale & see what happens to his trees, BUT... right now no ones buying it!! its every H.O. asking for topping to be done!! MMmmm what a nightmare.


LXT............

 

[ClimbinArbor]

I believe the correct term is "crown reduction", lol.

i got it nails. mds just has no humor for these things you see. lol

 

[capetrees]

How about myob? If the owner doesn't care, all the explaining isn't going to MAKE him care. Do your own jobs the right way and live with it.

 

[Jlarnard]

A lot of arborists like the term tree surgeon. Well simply put, unless it is dead and causing decay to the tree, I won't top a tree. Just like a surgeon wouldn't cut of a nearly perfectly functioning head. Now a drastic crown reduction I will do. Always following the 1/3 rule.
Drop crotch pruning rules!!

 

[clearance]

A lot of arborists like the term tree surgeon.

If I was a surgeon, I would be sued, and imprisoned for my killing ways. I don't even like the term arborist, it tends to lump you in with paper shufflers, textbook heroes and other non-workers of all kinds.

Now, how many surgeons are there who have never used a scapel on a patient?
Lots of arborists have never climbed or ran saw, see my point?

 

[Rftreeman]

If I was a surgeon, I would be sued, and imprisoned for my killing ways. I don't even like the term arborist, it tends to lump you in with paper shufflers, textbook heroes and other non-workers of all kinds.

Now, how many surgeons are there who have never used a scapel on a patient?
Lots of arborists have never climbed or ran saw, see my point?

and I thought I was the only one that felt this way........agree 100%

 

[Nailsbeats]

Oh no, there are more like us .

 

[Nailsbeats]

Drop crotch pruning rules!!

What does this mean, could you please explain? Thanks.

 

[yooper]

If I was a surgeon, I would be sued, and imprisoned for my killing ways. I don't even like the term arborist, it tends to lump you in with paper shufflers, textbook heroes and other non-workers of all kinds.

Now, how many surgeons are there who have never used a scapel on a patient?
Lots of arborists have never climbed or ran saw, see my point?

I do!!!! but I climb. maybe old school but damm good at it. maybe thats why. maybe not. but boy do I under stand where you are comming from. done r.o.w. my self. and see the idiots that run the show and have no idea whats going on.

 

[BCMA]

Here is an article I wrote and published locally here a couple of years ago.

“TOPPING”, OR THE PRACTICE OF TREE MUTILATION

The definition of the word “mutilate” is, 1. to cut off or damage a limb or other important part of a person or animal (in this case, trees); 2. To damage, injure, or otherwise make imperfect, especially by removing an essential part or parts. There we have it! Tree topping summed up in one word, MUTILATION!! It is a crying shame that various forms of “topping” is still being performed by some as a valid form of tree care. The tree care industry has established tree pruning standards that govern the proper pruning of trees. Information is available through the International Society of Arboriculture, National Arborist Association, various Universities, and professional Arborists. Fortunately there are many good Arborists in our area that can instruct you on proper tree care.

The tree care practices in the Silver Valley are especially apparent that more education is needed to teach people about proper tree care. Every where you look you see trees that have been butchered and are full of heart rot, excessive water sprouts, weakly attached limbs, and hazards to the nearby residence. These trees should be beautiful, graceful, and majestic, with strong scaffold branching supporting a rich green leafy crown, but instead look like they have experienced a nuclear blast or the Mt. Saint Helen’s eruption. It seems like when I am in the Silver Valley I spent most of my time explaining to people why I won’t top their tree. I often hear the concern, “I feel that my tree is to tall”. Believe it or not, many trees are supposed to be tall. Trees are highly engineered and designed woody plants that have specific growth characteristics unique to each species. It is quite apparent that some trees like to grow one hundred feet tall or more, and some trees grow less then fifteen feet tall. When you take a tree that is presently fifty feet tall or taller and reduce its height to lets say, twenty five feet, this tree is going to respond by putting out an excessive amount of water sprouts (suckers) throughout the remaining crown. Water sprouts that form on the main scaffold branches or the trunk of the tree many times are a sign that the tree is in decline or has been severely damaged. These water sprouts that form the new crown will have an accelerated growth rate of four to five feet a year or possible more when the average growth rate should be about ten to twelve inches a year. Within a few years the tree is at the same height that it was before the tree has it’s crown amputated, except now its full of rot, birds, hazards, disease, insects not to mention it’s ugliness during the winter time. If you think your tree is dangerous, it should be inspected by a qualified Arborist.

There are other fancy terms that are used to promote this type of tree destruction such as height reduction, crown reduction, pollarding, and drop crotch pruning. Although there are instances where these types of pruning are preferred or necessary, many times it is done wrong and falls under the category of topping. Lets take for instance “drop crotch pruning”. When this is done correctly the terminal branch is removed back to a lateral branch that is at least one-third the size of the parent branch. The lateral branch should have somewhat of an upward sweep to maintain the apical dominance of the stem. Cutting a four inch branch back to a one-half inch lateral that has no upward growth is not drop crotch pruning. It is of my opinion that any pruning on large deciduous trees that produces excessive suckering and heart rot is improper pruning.

There are other situations where someone might want to control the height on a smaller ornamental tree by making heading cuts year after year. This is fine as long as they realize that they will never have a natural looking tree. I know some that shear their hawthorn tree into a lolly-pop every year, or shear their blue spruce into a fine textured formal Christmas tree. There is nothing wrong with this if this is your desired effect.

There are many issues and circumstances that have not been addressed such as hazardous tree assessment, cabling and bracing, crown thinning to reduce wind sail, tree structure formation, ornamental pruning, shearing of deciduous and evergreen shrubs, root systems, and soils that all play a part of proper tree care. If there is one practice that I would like to see stopped, it is the topping of mature trees. It’s sad to see well meaning people pay good money only to have their trees mutilated.

 

[Jlarnard]

What does this mean, could you please explain? Thanks.

I am sure I would not word this right. But here is a link to a nicely concise article on it. There are lots of docs out there but this one is very concise.http://www.na.fs.fed.us/Spfo/pubs/howtos/ht_prune/approaches.htm

 

[Jlarnard]

Wanted to give BCMA a warm welcome. I am glad to see an arborist on here who is not afraid to speak the truth. Even if it isn't exactly the most profitable. And I wanted to clear up my stance on 1/3 rule. I do not recomend it to anyone with a healthy mature tree. I only sell them on it if they insist on toping. I try to steer them toward crown thinning.
And I also feel that to although being an arborist doesn't make you a good tree trimmer, why not have the education if you are a tree trimmer?
Besides I'd rather people call me an arborist than say, "look at that :monkey:"