Topping of trees

[Ron H.]

As of being a nubee to this site an the computer,[excuse last post.] I'm sure this subject has come up in the past, but I would like your imput. I've been in the biz. since '75, all my schooling was learned in the field. I have probably seen about everything there is to see in the tree care trade.
I'm a firm believer in thinning an hi pruning [balancing of trees.]
As a rule, I try my best to talk my customers out of toppng their trees. It works about 60% of the time. Then you do what you have to do, or Jo Smho, grass slinger, will get the job an just butcher the hell out of them. I do pride myself in giving the customer a well rounded tree also try to stay as high as I can get away with. Would rather eat steak then beans.

Also in the last 5 to 10 years about all the big Elect.Co. are having their tree crews taking half the tree out, or cutting big L,s in them or goal post. Are they trying to discourage the home owner along these right of ways to just have them removed. I know $$$ plays a big factor. They say it is better for the tree. I have my doubts part of the time. What about the home owner which now has all that weight hanging towards his home? Knot true all the time but more aften then knot. I know that flat topping is a slow death but when you peal out a big leader on road side, below lines the decay starts their, an where is the rest of the tree hanging? I see it a lot here. We have a lot of Soft Maples in my area. Is there any states that have a " big daddy" watching over these kind of practices ? None here in Ohio that I'm aware of.
P.S. I have never bidded on any line clearance work.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

There is a part of the comunity that is trying to define pruning as remoavl of material that is in acordance with the natural growth patterns of the tree, where trimming is indescriminant and towards that needs of man. Prune to thina and reduce vigor in side limbs. Trim to give seven feet of clearance from all structures.

Shigo is a big proponet of directional pruning, the V-gutting and 1/2 remaovals we see where topping would have been done in days past. The utilites have a vested interest in maintaining safe trees. If a defect develops there is no assurance that it will fall only on the house and not damage their transmission. Here in WI they inspect regulary and will do removals at no cahrge. If there is no hazard, but the tree imposes a future risk to thier plant, they will do a partial removal to below line hight. (I've done a number of those cleanups, they suck!) I've told prospective customers to call the util first and I'll do the rest.

It is ugly work, but thier duty is to ensure the system is kept running. Of course it would be best if only small trees were put in to replace the biguns.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Ron wrote: ...all my schooling was learned in the field. I have probably seen about everything there is to see in the tree care trade. I'm a firm believer in thinning an hi pruning [balancing of trees.]

Now that you have the mechanics fo tree work down, do yourself, and the trees, a service and learn the science of tree care. The field education is only a very small part of what is needed to be a proper tree pruner. One of the best books about tree care is Ed Gilman's book, An Illustrated Guide to Pruning. Understanding the principles of subordination will put you ahead of many other pruners. Do you attend all workshops and conferences? Start by attending your state and regional conferences. When you can afford the time, attend a national show. Notice I didn't say "afford the money" because education is an expense that needs to be in the budget ahead of a new saw or chipper.

Thinning and hi pruning/balancing are not really the best practice. Why do you thin? Most times the tree ends up being lion's tailed or, I think a better term is, gutted. After all, that is what is done to the trees, the guts are cut out of them and they struggle to live. High pruning can be called giraffe pruning. Cut everything that can be reached from the ground/bucket/center of the tree, with a pole saw. If the trees are gutted, the growth can only take place on the ends of the limbs. Without any inner growth, the branches don't maintain good taper, they get long and spindly. With all of the weight concentrated on the end the bending moment of the limb moves further out and can lead to branch failure. Not having inner growth also changes the branches movement in a wind. The next time there is a good windstorm, take a walk around your neighborhood and look closely at how the trees move. The ones with a good distribution of limbs will move with a nice smooth action. Gutted trees will tend to be very whippy.

A modern climber should spend two thirds of their time in the outer third of the crown. The trees would be healthier if that were the case.

The 40% of the time that you do go ahead and top the trees isn;t justified by doing the work so someone else doesn't do it. You are rationalizing. When I was taught tree work that was more the norm. When I started to actually read trade magazines and text books I found out how bad it is for trees, and my reputation. I quit topping. Now, it is rare that I can't sell a customer on proper tree work. If they are set on topping and don't believe me I use one last sales pitch. I ask if they have internet access. Most people do. I ask them to take a little time finding any written material that sanctions topping trees. I tell them that I will find a huge stack of literature against topping. I tell them that if they find ANY literature in favor of topping that I will literally EAT the paper it is printed on. So far, I have never lost that bet. Wanna take me up on the bet? If you find the literature before the Wisconsin Arborist Association meeting on January 27th, I'll make arrangements to eat the paper from the stage at the meeting. John Sanborn, for one, will be there to witness. I tell customers that I have personal as well as professional ethics that don't allow me to do work that harms trees. That way, they are on notice that if they have the tree topped or gutted, they are sanctioning unethical work.

Don't justify the quality of your work by the size of the brush pile on the ground. That only jsutifies a chipper payment. A good pruner spends time looking up at the tree not down at the brush.

What do you mean by "balancing"?

Tom

 

[Treeman14]

(The sound of thunderous applause fills the room...)

Amen, Brother Tom!!!:angel:

 

[HUSKYMAN]

Well written, Tom. I knew this thread would draw some good discussion.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

I have buckhorned very few trees in my time.

Even, before awareness of upsetting the trees system, i just never thought it looked good! Then, popping out all that higher wood without damaging branches below, seemed harder, and more dangerous.

Mostly though, it made jagged, angular lines on something that i was trying to accentuate flowing curves and grace amongst its power! When the awareness about what it did to the tree reached me, well it was just more ammunition to do waht i wanted anyway!

When people ask me to do it now; i just ask them a question. i ask them, what are they trying to achieve. The ball is in their court, do they want to hurt tree or what? Make dangerous, diseased? i let them tell me! i have lil flyer i made on inkjet, it is write there, pre-printed, tells that topping/ tipping is bad, i didn't just make it up.

If they are so contrary, argumenative etc. and won't listen, trying to tell me my job, how they have done it for years................ Well, let's just say that becomes self sorting; for if they are that ornery going in; they probably are gonna be a pain in da'butt the whole time! i like being happy!