topping whit pines

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chris_girard

ArboristSite Member
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Apr 6, 2003
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Location
New Hampshire
I've got a quick question for all of you east coast climbers out there. What do you consider a safe diameter to have as a min. when topping out eastern white pines for removals? I know this has a lot to do with the individual tree and how sound it is and if it has any defects in it, but as a rule of thumb what do you guys think?
 
Around 6 to 8 inches. But I'm in N. Fla. and the Pines here are pretty hard. I do a lot of tall skinny pines and have never had a problem.

Might depend on how big a fellow you are and how far your nerves will let you go. Being comfortable is the main thing for me.

Listen to your intuition. Hey, I am always thinking about tree(top) failure.

Seems to me if a tall pine can take the force of a good wind then my little butt won't phase it.
 
i do alot of loblolly pines here in GA and my minimum is 3-4 inches, but I only weigh 155lbs. On the few white pines I have done my minimum would be around 5-7in. ...I've seen too many white pines lose their tops to trust 'em.
 
At around 300# with my gear on, I climb high enought soe that the lean I cause pushes the top out far enough so I will get a good jump cut to pop off.:blob2: :eek:
 
Some of my first removals were tall pines in the Jax, NC area. Some of that stuff seams scary now. Like the one that was so punky my gaffs sunk in and I had to pull them out of the mush.
 
of course it also depends what you're doing with the top, square rigging it off or just falling it.
 
I'm with MP on this one. Over here we have white pines for the big ones. I would tie in to no less than 5" or so. However that is for going straight down, or at a light angle. If I was going to be working the tips, I think I would do something like KC was talking about in another thread. Have the system backed up just in case of a failure. A friend just fell from a white pine a couple months ago and is still getting over it. :(
 
I'm with MP on this one. Over here we have white pines for the big ones. I would tie in to no less than 5" or so. However that is for going straight down, or at a light angle. If I was going to be working the tips, I think I would do something like KC was talking about in another thread. Have the system backed up just in case of a failure. A friend just fell from a white pine a couple months ago because he was tied in too high, and the limb broke. He is still getting over it. :(
 
My system is to tie-in below weaakness of diameter, crack, decay etc. Then take slings and choke them every ~5-8' vertically, running both lines thru them. Each one becomes a saafety if the previous one fails. As i imagine a mountain climber might do. i also make sure that an pulls will not pull my lifeline up out of the safety zone of the primary TIP low.

i do 'cheat' and use my rigging loop runners and steel twist lox that i use for virtually all rigging, and always have. On the way down they become foot and hand holds, belt connection points, drink holders, rigging points pulling points for flexing load over etc.

i also do as monkey and squirrel and stay in line with the spar beneath me, picturing putting my balanced wieght straight down into the spar, along with it's columnar strength. It is something special to watch a fluffy top floating horizontally down; getting smaller and smaller; falling neatly, and fairly tightly into the box.....

If taking wieght mostly off front, i will save weight on opposite side for counter balance. If rigging where a pull might give a pull forward, i will lean back to offset and balance across the columnar strength of the spar, for it can carry more weight safely balanced than unbalanced, just as any other system.... IMLHO

When cutting i will try to plot and schedule (with speed, direction and plenty of face, side and back precuts) as complet an instantaneous seperation of wood as possible before most pulling force (or sometimes pushing) builds; whether topping or limbing without catching in rig.

In rigging still go for slow hinge delivery to pretightened & selftightening rig. Another good time in rigging to remember that a pulley can put 2x load on support (that too should be blanced and running directly down the columnar strength of the spar); but high friction on support can be much less load on support system.

4" min. for a main TIP, going above sounds comfortable for what i see and have the guts for!

methinx :alien:

-KC
 
I don't set a standard diameter tip to tie into. This morn. I tied into a pine at the highest point I felt comfortable w/ which happened to be about 3". I made sure to have my life line around another branch also incase it failed. This pine was in excellent condition and I had a lot of confidence in it's strength. Fun rigging job too! Lots of lifted tip tied branches and lowering w/ porty! I LOVE IT!!!:D
 
I've tied my 235 lb behind into a lot of Ponderosa pines at 4.5 inches. My very limited experience with Eastern White pines indicates that they are cosiderably more brittle than Ponderosas. So adjust as you see fit. Spydy's protection anchor sytem and a similar set of instuctions from Burnham in the Above your TIP thread seem unbeatable for eliminating doubts.
 
whit pine

White pine, If it is in a residential area, grown in the open that is, the growth ring could be an inch across or 1/2" per year as the tree approaches 90' at the top. I will climb to 4" but 6" is much safer. Wider than your shoe, put your foot up there and don't guess how wide it is, you may need to stand on it to cut the other tops out, most of the white pine around here have had the tops blown out in a storm and have more than one top. White pine is brittle and only holds about 30% to 70% of what it can hold when it is green vs. what a 2x4 can hold kiln dried. Why take a chance you don't have to take? You should be safe at 6" but you may want to go to 4" which is asking for trouble in the wind if you weigh 300lbs. with all your gear on. Remember green wood is not as strong as kiln dried wood. When you drop that top out set it aside and cut it at 6" and 4" and see how many growth rings you where climbing on. Learn about it on the ground not while you are doing aerial tricks.
 

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