Toppled Oak--How to get it down?

[treeseer]

This is the one Ernesto victim I had to work on so far. 23" dbh Quercus rubra, ~110' tall. Leaning on hickory and white oak but mostly on a pine. damaged roots on 2 sides and crop of green nuts aggravated the risk.

Wondering how others would get this on the ground with minimal damage to other trees, and for how much. Firewood left, brush chipped. Job is for friend/neighbor who did not have the sense to bring me in before the graders did their damage, but now don't want to spend too much.

First pic shows entire root plate is in the top two feet of earth. Second and third show the tangle of tops; sorry but no pic from a distance. Fourth pic is damage done to the pine--what would you do with this? Would you climb the toppled oak?

 

[jazak]

Could you get some better pics?? Those are a little too close up. I just did a job today like that just the entire top of the tree was laying on the ground jammed against another tree and hanging off a 50' drop! It wasn't fun. If there are houses close by get a crane. There is no way in h@ll I would cimb that, if no houses drop it.

 

[l2edneck]

Definitly need more pics B4 i could say to climb it.Prolly secure it off to somethin very heavy if i did.But id say by yer description prolly crane be best.If ya cant climb it maybe a bucket or lift?Ive used the ones they use to paint tall buildings.

 

[Ekka]

I've used cherry pickers to access the tree and start cutting it down and out of other trees.

Also, as we cant ride the hook, use the cherry picker to set the lift for the crane and get to your cutting point without being anchored to the tree.

You dont want to be tied into a tree that may move on you.

If you tie into another tree (pine etc) be sure it cant be broken by the oak falling more. But be careful that your ropes are never inside the loop if things go.

Of course if you can fell it do so.

With regard to damage to other trees usually that assessment of remedial work has to be done once you get a better look ... when the oak is gone.

I believe Mark C recently done something similar to this but was on the house roof, he should have some tips to.

These windthrows are intriguing, a bunch of numbers and facts please if you can.

What dia of soil/root ball was taken in the upheaval? was it inside that 2.5m radius?

Where the soil shear was ... is there any difference in the soil profile/layering?

Of the roots broken what are the dia's? Like you wont see too many huge roots busted usually ... and if so were they rotten anyway?

It fell in a certain direction ... why? Like did the wind push it that way, was that the side of the good hinging roots? Or was there another reason like it was the lower/downhill side?

Sorry to pester you it's just that these are things I like to know.

Also, USA has a great Tree Failure Database , what is on there regarding species and similarities? And are you going to add this one in?

 

[treeseer]

"What dia of soil/root ball was taken in the upheaval? was it inside that 2.5m radius?"
Yes, under 1m; roots were damaged by grading on 2 sides.

"Where the soil shear was ... is there any difference in the soil profile/layering?"
Extreme difference; clay hardpan. no roots bigger than a pencil penetrated.

"Of the roots broken what are the dia's? Like you wont see too many huge roots busted usually ... and if so were they rotten anyway?"
Amazingly, none over 4", 10 cm. yes the ones on the driveway side were rotting.

"It fell in a certain direction ... why? Like did the wind push it that way, was that the side of the good hinging roots? Or was there another reason like it was the lower/downhill side?"
Trees cleared to the north recently. Wind came from north/northeast as storm winds wrapped around the eye.

"Also, USA has a great Tree Failure Database , what is on there regarding species and similarities? And are you going to add this one in?"
Well I should yes. The Database is International, btw. You can add there too.

Sorry for the crummy pics. #3 was actually taken aloft, showing how the pine caught the oak. Whoops I almos tgave away how I did it. :blush:

 

[John464]

if you climb go up the pine, id use my spider lift on side opposite of lean. then set two lines to lower. first line set high on trunk of oak. second line set to lower the branches/top of the oak. Once you get all the branches off, come down and start cutting from the bottom letting the trunk drop straight down into the dirt. keep working it down on the rope and keep cutting 6' sections off the bottom. This is dangerous as the tree can swing around back at you when weight counters and you need to push each cut off to get it to fold. If you ever lowered trees off other trees I dont see this job being much different.

 

[kkottemann]

First choice is to use a crane. Rig the tree to the block and cut. Looks like a small tree so you could use a 17 or 20 ton to do the work. If a crane is not possible for you. Climb the pine, tie in good and go to work on the oak. I have handled many uprooted oaks in the past year here in New Orleans, everyone of them stood up under their own power after we cut the crown away and released the tree from whatever it was lodged on. But you must have a good tie in point somewhere in order to work on that tree. A crane is the best bet, safe, fast and efficient. Good luck

 

[treeseer]

No crane access on driveway, and we want to keep costs down, safely.

TIP on pine was '93' from ground, a lot of the oak had to be cut around there to free it up. It was leaning hard on pine. Not sure of bucket usefulness.

Assuming no bucket or crane, does everyone agree that climbing the pine is safer than climbing the toppled oak?

 

[rebelman]

I think I saw a crack in the pine.

 

[Ekka]

You dont want to be tied into a tree that may move on you.

If you tie into another tree (pine etc) be sure it cant be broken by the oak falling more. But be careful that your ropes are never inside the loop if things go.

Hmmm

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Why are you removing it?

 

[treeseer]

Why are you removing it?

an excellent question! :jester:

actually one owner started talking about tree-to-tree guying, then got The Look from me and the spouse and assured us he was just kidding. I never knwo what to think when tree owners say clueless stuff like that tho.

So Mike how would you do it? Climb the pine?

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

I would temporarily guy it with a couple good bull ropes then climb it.

 

[Canyon Angler]

We've got several FUBAR trees like that from Ernesto near me. As a homeowner/hobbyist, I can only look at them, shake my head and say, "Glad they aren't mine!"

I don't envy you this job...

 

[xtremetrees]

Routien hurrican job looks like to me, whats the problem ya'll scared?
Sure if the pine is more stable climb to the top of it and fly onto the oak.
Do the oak bottom up that way as you work up the stubb to the pressure wood when it does fall free the lower stuff doesnt hang up on its way down.

Climb the oak? It depends on how much weight you can get off the top safely as to the % of chance it will continue to topple over.
Once you free it (oak it may or may not fall) in my experience the small amount of root corruption will hold.

Edit: Id also remove or ground the pine.
When roping to wind stressed trees they are very flexiable. You will not be able to secure much to them because all the slack in the rope coupled with the flex of the tree. High wind will flex the tree for days then you go to rope a log and its like rubber trees.
Im not over exazerating, Id say a 200 lb log roped will flex the tree like a 1000 lb log.
Which mean if a tree is close that your gonna rope to be careful because the tree your roping to will flex so much that it could flex into you, this is something you will only encounter after high winds. You can easily smack yourself with the roping tree if you rope to much.

 

[xtremetrees]

I have handled many uprooted oaks in the past year here in New Orleans, everyone of them stood up under their own power after we cut the crown away and released the tree from whatever it was lodged on. But you must have a good tie in point somewhere in order to work on that tree.

Yep, they will stand up. I was cutting a blowned over tree laying on the ground beside a pond. As I stood on the stump side the tree did spring back and launched me approx 18 feet into the air into the pond. It thru me so high I had time to throw my saw onto land look at the surrounding people and touched my toes as a pro diver would do then did a perfect dive into a top that was submerged 5 feet below the water.

 

[treeseer]

OK Maas gets the prize; I lasjed the oaks together and climbed the toppled tree. The lashing was backup, done only after I saw my kid's eyebrows as I started to spike up. Anyway I got to where the red oak rubbed the pine and tied into the pine above that point.

1 hour with Sugoi to remove all loose stuff , <6". Next morning put pulley into pine and tied off top of red oak. Used 020t to Cut the rest of the big stubs off and then cut the top loose. It hung on rope thru pulley.

Came down and with mattock and bush ax cut the roots that were tending to hold it up. Gently lowered it all down. 2.8 hrs total for me and a groundie.

Today cleaned up and pruned the bent white oak and hickory to balance

I think that climbing the pine would have been less safe. How could you possibly want to put yourself under and in a tree with so much tension on it? And how do you climb thru the red oak top to safely tie into the pine? Way way chancier than simply walking up the toppled oak.

 

[xtremetrees]

Treeseer, were glad your still around

 

[xtremetrees]

Did at any time you find that you were hanging upside down while on a rope at 90 feet up and running a chainsaw?

 

[xtremetrees]

To be buried or burned?

So treeseer, beings now that youve proved you do tree like us in the event that something wrong happs would you rather be burned or buried?
Thou we argue about each's ethic's and price which I suspect will continue where do you stand on this?