Track Loader for firewood...needs some TLC anyone have some advice?

[04titanse]

I picked up a mid 60's John Deere 2010 Diesel Track Loader yesterday. Got some blow by but runs pretty well. Under carriage defiantly has some life left it it. Chains, rollers, grousers and sprocket all look above 50% for sure. It has a few issues that I can fix over time, but the one I am trying to figure out right now it the starting issues.

It turns over slow. Its got two brand new napa industrial batteries with receipts from last month. The guy tells me he load tested them just in case and they are both good. It also won't even respond to turn the key sometimes until I cycle the the key 5-20 times and then it will start turning over. I have not yet figured out if that it related to the key cylinder, wiring or solenoid/starter. I think the lack of cranking power is related to bad battery cables, they look like a cob job. So I will start there and work my way through the starting system. I'll have to purchase a battery load tester to confirm the batteries are good, replace the battery cables and then after that I'll consider pulling the starter and getting it tested.. Does this sound like a reasonable way to fix the problem????

Let me know what you guys think? I own it for scrap metal value so I'm happy to spend some time getting it running well.

 

[Guido Salvage]

You need heavy cables when drawing current from a 6 volt battery. Go to NAPA and buy the largest diameter cables you can find. Clean the posts and all connections, especially where you have a ground. Make sure there are heavy cables to both the solenoid and the starter, clean all connections there as well. Thin cables or poor connection will result in hot cables and loss of juice. If that doesn't solve the problem, pull the starter and have it tested to be sure it can pull a load, the bendix could be bad.

 

[hanniedog]

Sounds like a reasonable course of action to figure out what the problem is. I am betting on it being the starter.

 

[Guido Salvage]

Beware of cables that have cobbled or aftermarket ends on them as this can result in a huge loss of juice. You need a good mechanical connection that requires clean metal.

You may also want to check the CCA's on your batteries to see if they are strong enough to spin over your engine. A diesel runs off compression and you need to be able to kick it over fast enough to get it to catch. You also can't crank away on the starter or it will get hot and melt down.

 

[hanniedog]

May want to think about going to dry cell 6 volt batteries, they cost more but last a long time.

 

[jrocket]

Beware of cables that have cobbled or aftermarket ends on them as this can result in a huge loss of juice. You need a need a good mechanical connection that requires clean metal.

You may also want to check the CCA's on your batteries to see if they are strong enough to spin over your engine. A diesel runs off compression and you need to be able to kick it over fast enough to get it to catch. You also can't crank away on the starter or it will get hot and melt down.

I agree, if your cables have the cheap replacment clamp on ends, replace them, never saw one of those that was any good!
is this a 6 volt system or a 12 volt system with 2 6v batts? if its a 12v system you may want to replace the 6v batts with a good 12v, my experiance has shown that there isnt much call for 6v batts any more these days, and even when you buy new 6v batts chances are they have been sitting on a shelf for quite a while before they get sold, so in essance your buying old batts.
also be sure to check your ground connection, does the ground cable go directly to engine block or starter mounting bolt? it should for best performance.
my $.02

 

[04titanse]

The way it is set up right now there are two 12 volt batteries each is 1100 cold cranking amps. They are wired with the positive terminals going to a chassis ground and both negative terminals linked together and then go to the starter etc. So i guess its a 12 volts system, or at least its wired that way haha. I am going to replace all the battery cables this week and then go from there. What sized cables do you recommend?

 

[04titanse]

If you guys don't think the clamp on ends are adequate what is the alternative? I assume I cannot buy something that is made for the machine so I am stuck making my own correct?

How do you guys recommend I go ahead and replace these? I assumed just buy some heavy gauge cable at napa and get all the correct ends and fittings to hook everything up.

 

[Steve NW WI]

The way it is set up right now there are two 12 volt batteries each is 1100 cold cranking amps. They are wired with the positive terminals going to a chassis ground and both negative terminals linked together and then go to the starter etc. So i guess its a 12 volts system, or at least its wired that way haha. I am going to replace all the battery cables this week and then go from there. What sized cables do you recommend?

Sounds like it's running 12 volts, but many Deere ag tractors of that era were 24 volt systems. I don't know enough about em to say for sure, but if you ask here Viewing a forum - Machinery Talk you'll have an answer. It's the farm machinery equivalent of AS - lots of knowledge over there.

 

[Frank Boyer]

Get a volt meter and learn how to use it. Call around and find a parts house/shop that can custom make battery cables, if you need to change them. Do a voltage drop check on both the positive and negative side of the system. A voltage drop test will tell you if the cables/grounds, switch's, solenoid, etc are good or bad. Check what voltage the batteries read when it is turnig over. They should hold around 10.5 Volts. Change the oil to a 15 40 and see if that helps.

 

[04titanse]

Get a volt meter and learn how to use it. Call around and find a parts house/shop that can custom make battery cables, if you need to change them. Do a voltage drop check on both the positive and negative side of the system. A voltage drop test will tell you if the cables/grounds, switch's, solenoid, etc are good or bad. Check what voltage the batteries read when it is turnig over. They should hold around 10.5 Volts. Change the oil to a 15 40 and see if that helps.

Its a 12 volt system, i'll make some phone calls tomorrow and see if there is someone local that can make them. Didn't realize custom from a parts place was an option. When you say check the voltage drop across the whole system, I totally understand and I will do that tomorrow but my only question is what is acceptable drop across the system? Will there be a noticeable drop that is acceptable across say a 6' 4-gauge cable?

 

[Frank Boyer]

Its a 12 volt system, i'll make some phone calls tomorrow and see if there is someone local that can make them. Didn't realize custom from a parts place was an option. When you say check the voltage drop across the whole system, I totally understand and I will do that tomorrow but my only question is what is acceptable drop across the system? Will there be a noticeable drop that is acceptable across say a 6' 4-gauge cable?

About .5 V on both sides is good, over 1V shows more of a drop than is normal. It sounds like you are checking for total voltage and not voltage drop. For pos side, you put the volt meter on the + battery terminal and the other side on the output side of the solenid. For neg side put the meter on the - batt terninal and the other side on the starter case. This is checked when the sarter is turning over.

 

[04titanse]

About .5 V on both sides is good, over 1V shows more of a drop than is normal. It sounds like you are checking for total voltage and not voltage drop. For pos side, you put the volt meter on the + battery terminal and the other side on the output side of the solenid. For neg side put the meter on the - batt terninal and the other side on the starter case. This is checked when the sarter is turning over.

Alright that makes sense, i'll try and get that done tomorrow. Thanks for the help!

 

[dumbarky]

That's a sweet machine. My dad had a old international like it when I was a kid back in the early 80's. Sounds like a grounding and or too small cable problem. Congrats on the purchase.

 

[Icehouse]

I own it's brother or sister had it a long time. Have had 2 recurring problems over the years. First is battery, have cured that by changing generator to alternator with neg ground. You must have a bigger battery box because ours holds only one tractor battery. We have only 2 cables one long going to starter, one real short going to ground. We used to have starter rebuilt every couple years but not anymore. Second is a plugged oil filter in the hydraulic system, really drags down starter on cold start. The filter is in tank on left side of seat, just unbolt and pull handle straight up. The placement of tank leads to condensation in both hot and cold weather, and water plugs up filter, drains pretty easy or tank can be pumped out and goop scrapped out of bottom and washed with diesel. Ours got so bad once that the starter wouldn't hardly turn over motor and when we got it started pressure split pump case. The pump is above draw bar in the back and on top of pump is a lever that disconnects pump for real cold starts or putting on backhoe. We have replaced glow plugs once, best buy e-bay. You may need a new switch, sounds like it could be a problem. We put a " thumb" on our bucket really handy for picking up logs. You done real good you'll find all kinds on uses, enjoy.

 

[Goose IBEW]

I would go with #2 cable at a minimum and get ends that solder on. Make sure everything is operating room clean and use a torch for fast heating of the wire and the terminal that you are using. a bucket of cold water and a rag help to cool things down. The combination of the torch and the cold water soaked rag prevent the solder from tracking down the cable.

 

[D&B Mack]

Sounds almost like you have two different issues. One sounds like it could be ground issue, I would look at your ignition first, pretty common.

Second, I would guess is the cables as suggested. Replace those then move to the starter.

 

[04titanse]

Sounds almost like you have two different issues. One sounds like it could be ground issue, I would look at your ignition first, pretty common.

Second, I would guess is the cables as suggested. Replace those then move to the starter.

Yes I agree, i think the fact that it doesn't engage the starter once and a while is a grounding issue. But first things first I'll get some new cables made up! I am also have some track adjuster issues. One side leaks when you put pressure in it and the other is adjusted way too tight and won't loosen up.

 

[jrocket]

make sure your chassis ground is good and clean, and check that the engine is grounded to chassis.
really sounds like a ground issue to me.
I hope your starter isnt already cooked from low voltage, thats the fastest way to kill a starter.

 

[Frank Boyer]

By doing a voltage drop test you can check your cables, connections, switches, grounds, etc without taking anything apart. It is the easiest/quickest/cheapest way to fix the "real problem" the first time. You can spend a lot of time and money fixing "what it might be" instead of testing for what it is.