tree cabled but did I mess up?

[cupar]

I cabled a healthy poplar tree this morning. I went about 3/5th up the limb and connected it to the main stem. Tree is in good health but homeowner was worried about the branch failing in the future and landing on his house. So he decided it should be cut off and my recommendation was to try cabling. I used a 3/8 drill bit with a 1/2" eye screw, 1/4 aircraft aluminum cable around a thimble. This was overkill. I could've used 3/8 screw with 1/8 or 3/16 cable easily. The issue is I use 2 rope clips (u bolt with a clip and 2 nuts) and I staggered them one facing up one facing down. After finishing I checked and was told they should all face the same way and a minimum of 3 should be used. I am happy with the system it's tension is good, I think it could be tighter but still good. But will the wire fail or come loose somehow using only 2 on each side (4 total) instead of 3 (6 total) and not all symmetrical?

 

[cupar]

I feel it's safe but would like re-assurance.

 

[Pelorus]

Before you undertake any future cabling endeavours, I'd like to recommend that you beg, borrow, steal, or purchase a copy of the inexpensive Best Management Practices booklet on cabling from one of the Arboristsite sponsors, such as TreeStuff.com.
Eye screws (or J lags) on a tree like poplar are not a good idea.
Your staggered cable clamp strategy (opposing directions) is flawed.
Personally, you would have been better off doing what the client wanted, imo.
Good tension....fulcrum....decay....failure.....lawsuit.....bankruptcy......become a fugitive.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

Never saddle a dead horse.

The clamp has a saddle and u bolt. The saddle goes on the "live" side of the cable the u bolt on the "dead".
The dead side is the short end.

I'm not sure on the why, wish I could explain.
Some years back I took some courses so I could certify slings, chains, etc we used for lifting and securing bombs (USAF) and that was one thing they taught.

 

[67L36Driver]

Never saddle a dead horse.

The clamp has a saddle and u bolt. The saddle goes on the "live" side of the cable the u bolt on the "dead".
The dead side is the short end.

I'm not sure on the why, wish I could explain.
Some years back I took some courses so I could certify slings, chains, etc we used for lifting and securing bombs (USAF) and that was one thing they taught.

Yes! And, it is wire rope not cable.[emoji35]

Cable is for conducting electricity. Wire rope is for lifting and holding 'stuff'.

I spent thirty years at a wire rope plant.

 

[cupar]

Before you undertake any future cabling endeavours, I'd like to recommend that you beg, borrow, steal, or purchase a copy of the inexpensive Best Management Practices booklet on cabling from one of the Arboristsite sponsors, such as TreeStuff.com.
Eye screws (or J lags) on a tree like poplar are not a good idea.
Your staggered cable clamp strategy (opposing directions) is flawed.
Personally, you would have been better off doing what the client wanted, imo.
Good tension....fulcrum....decay....failure.....lawsuit.....bankruptcy......become a fugitive.

Aside from putting the "saddle" on the wrong way on 2 of the clamps I did exactly what the ISA certified arborist study book said to the word from memory. I would much rather bolted the tree instead of using a screw but time didn't permit doing that properly. (Wouldn't have been able to peen the ends, or cut off the excess, and may or may not have been able to cut the bark to seat the washers properly.)

 

[cupar]

Poplar here grows even if every leaf is cut off. Poplar grows here even if you cut it to a totem pole 1/3 of it's existing height. I'm confident the poplar won't rot, so why is screwing a poplar bad? Also cobra style systems we're out of the price range.

 

[cupar]

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

Sounds like the Poplar/Cottonwood/Aspen trees here.

We have some logs out in the yard that were cut down 2 years ago and they are growing feeders off the logs with a bunch of leaves.

I'm not an aborist, but I do have a threaded eye bolt in a Poplar tree at my house. It holds the end of a 125ish ft dog run that goes from my house to the woods. It's been there for 5 or 6 years now.
It's held fine against my lab, and even held up against me hooking the cable by accident with the ROPS of a compact tractor (only around 8or9 ft off the ground in the middle)

Couple years ago I had an arborist fell a big Poplar that was going to fall on my shed. I'm not setup to climb trees and with how hard it was leaning I wasn't going to take the chance and damaging about $5000 of solar panels if it didn't fall right.
Anyhow, he dropped it right across the dog run cable, not too far from the tree end.

It snapped the guy wire holding the metal pole at the house end, the eye bolt in the tree held just fine.

 

[treesmith]

From my experience on Poplar in the UK I would be hesitant to screw attach anything to one, the ones I've met start rotting for fun, nevermind after drilling holes in them.

Wouldn't dynamic bracing work better? No holes, just a basic spliced hollowbraid bracing rope

 

[cupar]

It absolutely would @treesmith however the selection here is limited but the actual systems that are sold as kits cost either $400 or $650 and due to the homeowners medical conditions I did this for him for a single hour of company time and then hammered down the rest of the day to make it up to the company. The other issue if you improvise is maintenance, the cobra system has a 5 year replacement and an improvised version I recommend yearly inspection for gurdeling.

 

[Pelorus]

Aside from putting the "saddle" on the wrong way on 2 of the clamps I did exactly what the ISA certified arborist study book said to the word from memory. I would much rather bolted the tree instead of using a screw but time didn't permit doing that properly. (Wouldn't have been able to peen the ends, or cut off the excess, and may or may not have been able to cut the bark to seat the washers properly.)

Since that poplar is "healthy", and every healthy poplar I've encountered grows faster than a hormone-crazed teenager, how soon do you reckon your 3/5th cable placement becomes 1/2?....1/3?....snap? Sounds like no pruning / thinning was done to that limb based on the economy of time and finances expended. I regard poplars as Arboricultural equivalents to dandelions or cane toads. Have you made a commitment to ongoing, perpetual monitoring and maintenance of your system (pro bono; the homeowner doesn't have tons of $$$....medical conditions)
Why didn't you just cut off the damn lead like the owner requested you do?

 

[Jed1124]

Screw in is definately not advised on popular. Personally, I don't use them on any trees. That lead that you cabled has a U shaped crotch and probably was not going anywhere anyhow. Weight reduction pruning would have sufficed. If money is a factor as to whether or not a cable gets installed correctly your better off walking away. If that cable fails and your not up to ANSI specs, your liable. At the very least I would go back up and get some fast wraps on there instead of those u-bolt fasteners.

 

[cupar]

Since that poplar is "healthy", and every healthy poplar I've encountered grows faster than a hormone-crazed teenager, how soon do you reckon your 3/5th cable placement becomes 1/2?....1/3?....snap? Sounds like no pruning / thinning was done to that limb based on the economy of time and finances expended. I regard poplars as Arboricultural equivalents to dandelions or cane toads. Have you made a commitment to ongoing, perpetual monitoring and maintenance of your system (pro bono; the homeowner doesn't have tons of $$$....medical conditions)
Why didn't you just cut off the damn lead like the owner requested you do?

Yes I have, I gave him both my company and work cell number with the intent of anything going wrong to call. Pruning was done free of charge by a community contractor to remove all dead or rubbing 1" and greater. The branch union was very healthy, I assumed it'd be better to keep such a large healthy limb then to simply hack it off create a large exposed wound.
Since the cable is already 45' off the ground that branch would need to grow an additional 15' minimum to put the cable at 1/2 way and I don't know how much more to be at 1/2 weight. Since it's a poplar that is currently 70'+ I don't think it has another 15' left in it.

 

[cupar]

Screw in is definately not advised on popular. Personally, I don't use them on any trees. That lead that you cabled has a U shaped crotch and probably was not going anywhere anyhow. Weight reduction pruning would have sufficed. If money is a factor as to whether or not a cable gets installed correctly your better off walking away. If that cable fails and your not up to ANSI specs, your liable. At the very least I would go back up and get some fast wraps on there instead of those u-bolt fasteners.

Your correct about the union and weight pruning. I wish I had a dozen more of you to help me convince people just because it's over something doesn't make it weaker. However a lot of people (me included) believe in Murphys law

 

[ATH]

I guess I don't see that as a limb that needs cabled? It has a good connection angle, no indication in that picture of damage, rot, decay, etc...

The branch that looks poorly connected (from the angle of that picture) is the one out over the street (lowest on the left).

 

[cupar]

Sorry I posted this here. I should've posted this on a fencing or wire forum. Despite literally taking every shortcut possible I did this cabling by the book. Which book? ISA certification study guide copyright 2010 chapter 9 page 136 aircraft cable. Page 138 installation distance. Page 139 termination of aircraft cable. Also see best management practices : tree support systems copyright 2007. Sorry use of cable other then EHS and common grade isn't in the prior isa certification guide. Sorry that poplar is a rotting weed in your area.

I was hoping for answers as to how to set dead end hardware? (The bend of the U touching the dead or short end). whether I should go and flip the clamps or if that would cause excessive stress and damage the wire? Or if using 2 instead of 3 or having them upside down will cause the wire to come loose or fail?

 

[cupar]

I guess I don't see that as a limb that needs cabled? It has a good connection angle, no indication in that picture of damage, rot, decay, etc...

The branch that looks poorly connected (from the angle of that picture) is the one out over the street (lowest on the left).

Yes that is a poor scaffold branch. It doesn't have any rot or included bark. Unfortunately it's not my tree and since all it will do when it fails is land across the street I don't think anyone will do anything till it fails.

 

[Jed1124]

ANSI 300 Best management practices for cabling and bracing on pg. 15 : Cable clamps (wire rope clamps, bulldog clamps) are not to be used in North America to form terminations on any cable larger than 1/8 inch diameter.

 

[Pelorus]

Yes I have, I gave him both my company and work cell number with the intent of anything going wrong to call. Pruning was done free of charge by a community contractor to remove all dead or rubbing 1" and greater. The branch union was very healthy, I assumed it'd be better to keep such a large healthy limb then to simply hack it off create a large exposed wound.
Since the cable is already 45' off the ground that branch would need to grow an additional 15' minimum to put the cable at 1/2 way and I don't know how much more to be at 1/2 weight. Since it's a poplar that is currently 70'+ I don't think it has another 15' left in it.

I understand (sorta) the rationale behind what you did, and I think you're a good guy with a good heart and good intentions. Good.
Noticed in the photo provided the large exposed wound from that lower limb removal, so it's all a moot point. Bad.
Cheers,
Dave