Tree Felling with Rope?

[vicuna]

New Member here. I have been binge reading this forum. Would love a final opinion on this so I can be as safe as possible.

My goal is to use rope to help me with direction of felling a few trees. I am reasonably sure I can get them to go with a chainsaw - but a) I would like the extra safety and b) I would like to learn the technique now on some smaller trees so that when I have trees that truly need the rope, I am comfortable with it. So I'll be practicing / learning on small trees where if I mess up the direction, it won't hurt anyone or anything.

I am a homeowner on 10 acres (coming from a condo so I am somewhat new to this). I'd like to be self sufficient as much as possible. I will call in for professional help on anything huge if I ever need it. I have learned basic chainsaw skills over the year both with reading and the Game of Logging Class. they do have a live class on rope felling but looks like it might be many months until I can get to one. I'd like to get started so when I go there I have some knowledge.

My searches have led me to the Maasdam Rope puller kit - seems highly recommended here. and it seems simple enough to use. I understand about the need for a progress capture pulley.
1) Can someone please recommend a specific progress capture pulley for me?
2) also can someone recommend the slings I should use?

I have also come across the wyeth-scott power puller.
3) Seems like overkill for me - but I'm all for overkill if it will enhance my safety. Looks like a little bit more to learn with this one: I would have to learn how to tie a knot midline to connect the rope on a tree to the Power Puller. on the plus side it looks like I would not need a progress capture...and this thing looks to be very well built - so wondering if that would add to my safety? Is this worth looking into and learning the midline knot? or just stick with the simpler Maasdam. (I have no other use for the puller other than tree felling).

thank you for any info!

 

[Cutch]

Okay quite a bit going on in this opening post here. Lets start from the top.

First: Congrats on becoming a new home owner!

Second: Please post pictures of what you are trying to do. Most tree workers have amazing spatial reasoning but we have to literally see what we are dealing with in order to figure out how we would approach a job. Pictures are truly worth far more than words.

Third: Gear selection and usage. I've personally used the Massdam rope puller kit when I was working in tree service. Thing is fantastic! But it's limited in it's abilities and how you implement it.

Something you have not addressed that does have me a bit concerned is: how you are going to set the rope up in the canopy in order to use the wenches? If you are a brand new Joe Homeowner your going to need a way to get the rope up there to tie it into the tree. I get a bit dumb with my money spending so I have all of my climbing kits and such so I have a throwline and throwball. Have you looked at those items yet?

I don't know everything but I'm happy to share what I do know.

 

[vicuna]

thank you for writing back!

I will get a throwball to get the line up. anything past that I'll just consider beyond me and hire that out. currently there's nothing that needs that. I'll never climb a tree or use a ladder.

I'll get some pictures up. for now I wanted to practice on some trees that are say 12 inches diameter, and maybe 30-50 feet tall, with slight leans...like under 5 degrees. there are a few where I would like to aim them a certain way - more just for convenience for my bucking. so I figure it's a good place to start because I'm fairly certain I would be totally fine without the rope.

at this point, I kinda wanna just learn the whole process and get a feel for the equipment - so that when I take a class I don't have to worry about that part of it so much.

 

[Marley5]

We had a plethora of tools for felling Ash trees in residential properties where buildings and houses could be in jeopardy.

Battery powered winches, come-alongs, pulleys, straps, slingshot and sandbag.
It was much easier as a 2 man operation.
One person doing the back cut while the other was bumping the winch watching the progress.
The saw man would turn it over to the winch operator once he was deep enough into the back cut.
It was safe and successful every time, thankfully.
The reason for the slingshot is some trees didn't have a crotch reachable by arm strength.
The higher the contact point, the more leverage.
Felling wedges can also be a valuable tool when there is no fear of structural damage.

Sounds like you have a desire to learn.
Take your time, wear protection and be safe.

 

[Yarz]

My searches have led me to the Maasdam Rope puller kit - seems highly recommended here. and it seems simple enough to use. I understand about the need for a progress capture pulley.
1) Can someone please recommend a specific progress capture pulley for me?
2) also can someone recommend the slings I should use?

I love my Maasdam puller! It is way more efficient than how I used to pull.

I bought a kit (like this), so it came with the puller, rope, and anchor sling. I can't recall ever needing something else, but if you think you'll need something longer, you can take your pick from a dead-eye, ultra, whoopie, loopie, etc. in whatever length you think you'll need.

What do you mean you need a progress capture pulley? Do you not trust the pawls in the puller?
Now I'm curious if I should be concerned when using mine.

 

[Yarz]

As for the other puller (keep in mind I haven't used one), my only concern would be possibly running out of pull length (for example pulling a back-leaner), but it all depends on what you think you'll run into with the trees you're cutting.

But, I may be overly concerned about that, because I started pulling with a 6' come-a-long.

Tying a knot mid-line is simple enough to learn. Take a look at the Alpine Butterfly as one example or Mid-line Clove Hitch as another example. There are plenty of options - pick one you like, comparing strength and ease of tying.

 

[telecasterfool]

OK. I use slings like this one to attach the puller to another tree.:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00I5HRG02/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1
I use this puller:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01M2Z4EVR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1
I use a rope grab or eye to eye prussik to attach the hook end of the puller to the rope in the tree. Look up SMC Grip on Ebay.
I use 1/2" Arborplex rope on most trees.
You can throw ball the rope in to the tree, then tie a running bowline and pull it up tight (leave a long tail so you can pullit back down if necessary.
OR you can learn what's called a Base tie. The rope goes over a strong limb and ties at the base of the tree with a cinching know like a running bowline.
Get the pulling rope setup, and the puller anchored. Connect the two. Take up the slack, and put a little tension on the rope.
The puller does not have to be directly in the path the tree will fall. It should not be placed where the tree will fall, because you will be there later. The puller is your safety, or the pull to overcome a back lean. once the tree moves past center, gravity and your hinge will do the rest.
Make your face cut. Check everything. Check the rope tension. Just a little is fine.
Start your back cut to a thick hinge, not final hinge, thicker than that. Set a wedge. (dependent on tree thickness) Stop and think, slow down and evaluate. Make sure you and everyone else is out of the drop zone.
What you do next depends on whether the tree leans back or not.
If not, add slightly more tension, but not enough to pull the tree over. Remember, you could pull it over now, but it would use a lot of unnecessary force.
It's good for learning to pull the rope sideways and watch the tree. See how the force moves the tree.
If the tree leans back, you can add tension and watch the tree stand up a little.
Finish the back cut to final, strong hinge. This is dependent on tree diameter, side lean and tree species.
If it's not back leaning, you can finish felling the tree from your saw as usual. If it leans back, it's time to pull it over with the puller.

Please ask for clarification if necessary.

 

[david newbie]

I often find a rope combined with a come along helpful, as I'm also a beginner

 

[SteveInOregon]

I often find a rope combined with a come along helpful, as I'm also a beginner

I pull a LOT of leaners, mostly soft wood single stem pine & fir.
The only suggestions I can ad is that You want leverage which to me means You want Your rope to be attached above the half way / mid point of the height of the tree. If the tree is 100ft tall from down at the felling cut all the way up to where the tree narrows down the diameter / width that is too narrow to attach a rope to pull it. So say the tree is exactly 100ft tall then attach Your rope above the 50ft mark. Depending on what mechanical device & rope vs the diameter/ size of the tree will tell You how much pull in pounds You can safely use against the lean. Example: using Dyneema super braid line with an electric winch that can pull a LOT more weight than say a Maasdam hand crank rope puller spooling Arborplex rope dictates how many pounds of pull You dare put into the rope being used.

Important: If the tree You are pulling is dead ( called a snag out here in the west coast ) You could risk pulling the top half or third snapping it right off right during the pull.

Myself I never try to pull the tree over as the other helpful guys here have said, just easy and slowly pull it too the vertical upright position and sightly more towards the wanted fall direction.

More complicated trees that are biased not only leaning back towards a house but are also leaning sideways AND back or that have heavy side crown or limbs are an experts tree.

I'll post my next leaner im pulling / taking down when the weather breaks.

I hope this was helpful to the discussion

 

[vicuna]

so here is an example of the tree I am thinking. I am pretty sure I can get this to just go with a notch and wedges - but I would like the rope as a backup, and like I said, I want to learn how to use it.

there is a creek (it's dry now) in the direction it's leaning...I wanna fell it to it's left just for convenience bucking it up. basically I want it to go where the wood pile is in the pic.

it's ash but I'm not suuuuper worried it's rotten. you can see the other trees were all pretty strong inside. I won't rule it out though and i'll be careful.

 

[vicuna]

What do you mean you need a progress capture pulley? Do you not trust the pawls in the puller?
Now I'm curious if I should be concerned when using mine.

check this video out. (I am obviously not speaking from experience. only info I have gathered)

 

[Yarz]

Hmm... Interesting. I appreciate the information.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

Never use a Masdaam without a way to capture the progress

 

[AT sawyer]

I've used a Maasdam rope puller for 25 years and never had a rope slip problem. From the visuals in that video, he wasn't using the right rope and I'll bet he bought just the puller and was using a non-recommended rope. Those pullers require three strand. That carabiner also looked dodgy. Maasdams should come with a load rated hook on each end.
A rope puller won't land your tree on a dime if you don't make a proper hinge. It will help with back lean and pulling a limb bound tree loose, but once the tree is on its way down and the line goes slack, that tree will go where your hinge aimed it. Also keep in mind that a single rig will start the tree towards you. An offset block on your aim tree to redirect the rope to an anchor tree for the Maasdam is a safer approach.

 

[vicuna]

ok yes I see that rope definitely looks harder in that video.

so would an offset block just be a pulley a attached to a sling in a nearby tree in the direction I want to fell?

I see this pulley is rated for up to 13mm (1/2 inch) and has progress capture option (I guess it can't hurt)

Petzl Pro Traxion
https://www.petzl.com/US/en/Professional/Pulleys/PRO-TRAXION

like this?

is there a sling you'd recomend?

thank you!!

 

[Sidecarflip]

When I don't use one of my arborist customers to fell trees (which is rare actually), I use a weighted throw rope to get up in the tree and pull up successively larger and larger ropes until I can get a chain up there and I hook the chain on the drawbar of one of my big tractors and use that and I don't have to cut through base all that mush either as the 'lever effect always brings them down. A 1/3ed through cut is all I ever need. A 10K plus tractor and 100 ponies make short work of any tree here.

I pattern my rigging about how Longshoremen secure a freighter. Little rope first then successively larger until I can get a chain in the tree and then it's 'lights out'.

Just have to make sure I have long enough chain so the tree don't hit my machine on the way to Terra Firma. Lots of times I use the front loader to loft the downed tree so I can cut it up easily.

Don't need no stinking come along at all....

 

[vicuna]

yeah that totally sounds efficient. I probably will use this on under 20 trees in my lifetime so it would be hard to justify a tractor to the wife i've been looking for reasons to get one so I'll put this on the list. probably not happening for me at this point.

 

[Sidecarflip]

I'm justified as I farm.

 

[vicuna]

i wonder if my vegetable garden will count. i'll bring it up next time she's in a good mood.

 

[AT sawyer]

You don't need a progress capture pulley, as the Maasdam is ratcheted. Any decent arborist pulley will work. You are only using it as a re-direct. https://www.treestuff.com/cmi-rp105-heavy-duty-5-8-rope-pulley/


I use endless loop purple round slings and 5/8" shackles. Tulsa chain is a good source https://www.tulsachain.com/

Your diagram is essentially correct though I try not to offset in-line with my direction of pull. Remember that your hinge will determine where the tree goes and once it starts moving forward, and once it's on its way, the Maasdam line will go slack.

ok yes I see that rope definitely looks harder in that video.

so would an offset block just be a pulley a attached to a sling in a nearby tree in the direction I want to fell?

I see this pulley is rated for up to 13mm (1/2 inch) and has progress capture option (I guess it can't hurt)

Petzl Pro Traxion
https://www.petzl.com/US/en/Professional/Pulleys/PRO-TRAXION

like this?

is there a sling you'd recomend?

thank you!!

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