Tree Inventory GIS

[Michael Savage]

Can anybody reccomend a good PDA for tree inventory and GIS applications ?
Ideally something a little robust as will likley end up getting knocked around a little..

-Mike

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Top of the line would be the though book line, but it is around $2500US
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I would prefer a notebook for doing mapping and inventory, just for the bigger screen

 

[Michael Savage]

Mmm, will have a look into this one.

I just need something convenient while walking around in the field, I've trialled a couple of tablets though did not find them as advantageous as I had hoped.

 

[brnchbrkr]

Tree Inventory

Found a link for some Free Inventory Software.....

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/TreeInventorySoftware_155566_7.pdf

 

[arbor pro]

Do you already have your gps picked out? If not, and depending on your budget, perhaps you should consider a Trimble xh with the built in display. For tree inventories, you would have your map display plus gps plus data entry all in one hand-held unit and with sub-meter accuracy.

If you only need 3-5 meter accuracy, then there are other models that will fit the bill but less money.

Another option is the Ricoh gps-enabled camera (500se model). They allow the user to collect a digital photo, gps location info and data attributes all within a military-grade 8megapixel camera. You can collect up to 10 attributes with the newly released 500se and you can get it with a compass so it automatically tracks the direction you are facing when you take the photo. For tree inventories, this would enable you to take photos as well as information. We use GPS Photolink software by GeoSpatial Experts to process the photos. It gives the user a number of options including: 1) watermarking the photos with the location information, date/time, attributes collected in the field and bearing, 2) mapping the photos in google earth as a KML file, 3) mapping the photos in GIS as a shapefile or geodatabase layer, 4) mapping the photos to a web page using USGS orthophotos as an overview map and 5) a couple of other applications which I can't remember at this time.

 

[arbor pro]

Here's a link to a brochure for the camera. (May have to copy and paste to your web browser).

www.ricoh-usa.com/solutions/geoimaging/brochures/500se_brochure.pdf

 

[Michael Savage]

That camera looks prety effin stylin... Could you throw a dollar figure at the trimble unit ?

 

[arbor pro]

That camera looks prety effin stylin... Could you throw a dollar figure at the trimble unit ?

Depends on what kind of positional accuracy you need. You can get a trimble juno with 10m accuracy for $600. A Trimble GeoXM or recon with 2-5m accuracy will run you $3500-$5000. If you need sub-meter accuracy, you will need to come up with $5k and on up.

If you prefer to do data collection with a tablet pc, you don't ne3ed the data entry and map functions on the gps. You can just get a good gps and bluetooth or wifi it to your tablet which will have the gps software on it (such as arcpad). Such a gps might run you $3500 and the software $1500. If you don't have a tablet pc, add another $1500-$2000.

It all boils down to what kind of positional accuracy you need. Figure that out and then find a gps that fits the bill...

 

[BC WetCoast]

Good gps units with data loggers are often available for rent from a survey equipment supplier.

I've used a Toshiba Toughbook tablet and liked it. However, it was linked by bluetooth to a small gps receiver and it wasn't nearly accurate enough.

However, we used aerial photography downloaded from Google earth as a base map and didn't really need the gps as I was able to pinpoint each tree (usually as a shadow).

If you get the highend gps with the receiving antenna on a pole, remember you need at least 6 satellites to get accuracy. The farther north you get, the lower the satellites sit on the horizon. When I used these units for forestry surveying, it was common to have to wait minutes, and if you are way up north, hours for the satellites to come into view. Also sitting on the north side of a steep mountain or in a dense tree canopy can reduce the signal strength.

 

[arbor pro]

Good gps units with data loggers are often available for rent from a survey equipment supplier.

I've used a Toshiba Toughbook tablet and liked it. However, it was linked by bluetooth to a small gps receiver and it wasn't nearly accurate enough.

However, we used aerial photography downloaded from Google earth as a base map and didn't really need the gps as I was able to pinpoint each tree (usually as a shadow).

If you get the highend gps with the receiving antenna on a pole, remember you need at least 6 satellites to get accuracy. The farther north you get, the lower the satellites sit on the horizon. When I used these units for forestry surveying, it was common to have to wait minutes, and if you are way up north, hours for the satellites to come into view. Also sitting on the north side of a steep mountain or in a dense tree canopy can reduce the signal strength.

Good point. I was assuming Michael was intending to do an urban tree inventory and that the tree canopy would not be as dense as in a typical forest setting. BC Wetcoast is right - you need direct line of sight to get satellite connection to the gps. You don't necessarily need 6 though. 4 will get you 2d (lat and long) readings in the 10m accuracy range, 5 satellites will possibly get you 3d (elevation also). 6 or 7 is preferred and, if you can get WAAS correction in the field, you can get even better accuracy; however, the WAAS data correction stations are typically even lower on the horizon than the primary gps satellites (26 total - 24 + 2 backup) that orbit the earth.

I've done tree inventories in somewhat forested areas. It gets very difficult to get communication with satellites under a dense tree canopy or next to tall structures. Having the ability to plug in an offset distance can come in handy in case you have to step away from whatever feature you are trying to collect so you can get better line of sight communication with the satellites. By plugging in an offset, you can have the point data corrected to the offset location when it is processed.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Also sitting on the north side of a steep mountain or in a dense tree canopy can reduce the signal strength.

And you find yourself doing the satellite dance, moving back and forth to get a lock on the birds from the edge of the dripline because of canopy interference.

I've talked to some operators who add deviation notes for reading, or they would take multiple positions around the canopy for a triangulation

 

[BuddhaKat]

Here's a nice one:

Rugged, waterproof, has a built in camera, BlueTooth, can even connect to the cell system via GPRS or CDMA. Less than $2,000 (US), fully decked out.

 

[arbor pro]

From what I can see, the mobitron is simply a ruggedized mobile computer with a gps module and camera added. I would want to know more about the gps module before judging it further but, the same could be accomplished with a pda, toughbook pc, gps-enabled camera (see previous post), etc.

For under $2k, I wouldn't expect the gps to have much better positional accuracy (horizontal) than 10 meters. If that is acceptable for a tree inventory then, perhaps it would be a good option. However, 10m accuacy can be accomplished with any number of low-end gps devices on the market. If that is all that is needed, then one has to look at what else is important such as transportability, toughness, weight, photo collection, data entry, etc.

 

[BuddhaKat]

From what I can see, the mobitron is simply a ruggedized mobile computer with a gps module and camera added. I would want to know more about the gps module before judging it further but, the same could be accomplished with a pda, toughbook pc, gps-enabled camera (see previous post), etc.

For under $2k, I wouldn't expect the gps to have much better positional accuracy (horizontal) than 10 meters. If that is acceptable for a tree inventory then, perhaps it would be a good option. However, 10m accuacy can be accomplished with any number of low-end gps devices on the market. If that is all that is needed, then one has to look at what else is important such as transportability, toughness, weight, photo collection, data entry, etc.

The camera is built in, no GPS. You could connect one via USB or BlueTooth. It is exactly what you say though, a rugged PDA, which is what the OP asked for. For less that $2k you get all the bells and whistles this thing has. The base model sells for under $1k.

 

[arbor pro]

The camera is built in, no GPS. You could connect one via USB or BlueTooth. It is exactly what you say though, a rugged PDA, which is what the OP asked for. For less that $2k you get all the bells and whistles this thing has. The base model sells for under $1k.

I guess I once again assumed that a gps was needed.

 

[BuddhaKat]

I guess I once again assumed that a gps was needed.

I dunno. I don't even know what GIS stands for. I am actually familiar with the Mobitron unit because I'm a dealer for them. Made in Korea btw. Good stuff.

 

[hokiewheeler]

I was working utility right of way survey one time and this one crew lucky enough to have the modern conveniences was out with a 4 wheeler and gps and a toughbook. One of the guys managed to go a$$ over teakettle down a hill and land square on his chest. The toughbooks were carried in harnesses placing them in front of the wearer. This guy managed to put a 2" stump right through the LCD of this computer. So much for the tough book. He swore he'd have been dead if not for the laptop though. They ruined it for the rest of us. No more 4 wheelers. I got a clipboard and a pencil. I even had to bring my own waders. I had binocs to figure out which span number I was on. The crappy part on survey is that if the lines cross a swamp, so do you.

 

[Michael Savage]

Sorry for the duress gentle folk, work commitments have meant a minimal amount of time spent reading the forum.

Hoping to have some time later today to read through the replys

-Mike

 

[BC WetCoast]

I relooked at your original question and assumed like everyone else who answered that you meant gps and not gis.

In case you did mean gis, (which for those who don't know is Geographic Information System. It is software that allows you to spatially represent various layers of data which is contained in a database - ArcInfo is the primary GIS software in use) I don't think a PDA has the juice to do anything with a gis except gather data.