Tree kote pruning sealer or no?

[coolbrze]

What trees is Tree Kote pruning sealer recommended for and what time of year do you apply vs. not apply? I've heard both sides to the story - the pruning sealer will seal in bacteria and cause the tree to rot & the flip side, that it helps the tree not weep sap. Would love to hear the experts advice...

 

[treeseer]

wont stop sap weeping--what species of tree does that in august? product should not cover cambium.

oneview is that sealants are only worth experimenting with when a lot of heartwood is exposed and you know the tree cannot seal itself.

 

[RenaisSAWnceMan]

No other opinions or input on this ??

 

[PJM]

No other opinions or input on this ??

Sealants are for asphalt, concrete, tile, fencing, flooring ...

 

[Bodark]

Tree Kote and other asphalt sprays are old technology IMO. Simply not needed, tree compartmentlizes the wound or cut rather quickly. That being said, the nursery sells jars of the stuff every year.

 

[TreeTopKid]

Tree Kote and other asphalt sprays are old technology IMO. Simply not needed, tree compartmentlizes the wound or cut rather quickly. That being said, the nursery sells jars of the stuff every year.

True, but iin areas where Oak wilt is prevalent it willl prevent the Nitidulid beetles from landing on it and depositing their lovely pathogens. It is recommended that ALL cuts be painted in areas where Oak Wilt is present. The Nitidulids love your freshly opened wound.

It will not harm the tree, nor prevent compartmentalization, if you don't do it, its akin to playing Russian Roulette with your clients tree. Check the Texas A & M Website for more info.

 

[Treewound]

Treekote tree wound dressing has been proven to help control the spread of Oak Wilt as well as other tree diseases which are spread in the same fashion.
Additionally, our tests have shown that wounds that are treated with Treekote Tree Wound Dressing have a higher rate of closure than wounds that are left untreated. While the Treekote does not speed the closure process, it does reduce the "dieback" and therefore there is less area to close.
Wounds should be treated immediately for maximum protection from the spread of disease and to reduce dieback.
As noted in an ealier thread, trees "compartmentalize" (seal of internally) wounded areas so once this has begun, and the sap is not longer running(which attracts insects that spread pathogens) the benefits of applying Tree Wound Dressings are reduce to asthetics.
It must be noted that the negative findings about the use of Tree wound dressings are due to mis-use, specifally the over application - MORE IS NOT BETTER!
If applied in a thick layer, when the callus begins to form it can "lift" the dressing off of the tree and form a pocket behind which can serve as a host area for fungus and/or insects. Tree Wound Dressings should be applied in as thin a layer as possible while achieving full coverage, paying close attention to the edges.

 

[sweetjetskier]

Do you work for Treekote?

Your answer appears to be biased towards old school tree care theories.

When pruning cuts are made correctly, pruning 'paints' should not be needed, there should be no need to cover the cuts.

 

[Treewound]

Yes I do work work "Treekote", in fact I own the company, HOWEVER my statements are based on FACTS. We would be glad to send you a copy of our study and additional supporting documentation, you can request it at: [email protected]
You are absolutely correct in stateing that propper pruning methods should ALWAYS be followed as the first step.
The study published in "Arboriculture & Urban Forestry" (formerly the "Journal of Arboriculture") volume 33, Number 2, March 2007 and written by Kim Camilli, David Appel, and W. Todd Watson clearly demonstrated the benefits of applying Tree Wound Dressing (specifically Treekote) in an effort to help control the spread of Oak Wilt. These findings have also been demonstrated in several other publications. In fact, it is our understanding that the application of Tree Wound Dressing in MANDATORY in some areas at specific times of the year
Our company recently completed a study of wound closure that demonstrated reduced die-back on treated wounds vs. untreated wounds.
Even if you review the studies of probably the best known opponent of applying tree wound dressing, Alex Shigo, "Wound Dressings on Red Maple and American Elm: Effectivness after five years, published in the Journal of Arboriculture, Vol. 3, No. 5, May 1977, and Wound Dressings: Results of Studies Over 13 years, published in the Journal of Arboriculture, Vol 9, number 12, Decenber 1983, you will see that the studies acknowledge the benefits of reduced dieback and protection against the spread of specific diseases. In fact the results of the 1983 study showed that the wounds that were treated with Treekote Tree Wound Dressing had lower occurrance of decay causing fungi and a smaller area of dieback. In the 1977 study by Shigo he used an instrument that measured electrical resitence that did show higher resistence in the treated wounds than untreated wound, which is an indication of decay, BUT he went on to theorize that this was caused by cracks at the edges and the forming of pockets that I mentioned in my prior thread. These "pockets" will not form when tree wound dressings are properly applied.

 

[Urban Forester]

Its important to note that vascular diseases vectored by insects drawn to fresh pruning cuts in areas where the insect is rarely "dormant" due to continuous/mostly warm temps can dictate need. However these are also quotes from Dr. Shigo, you make the decision based on available information:
"We should not rely on medicines and wound dressings to correct problems we create. It is not so important to start new practices as it is to STOP many old practices that do more harm than good."

"Microorganisms have their picnics and parties under wound dressings".

"Don't worry, do want you want to the tree and paint it black and it is a forgiveness of sin." The tree system just not function that way".

"Most wounds do not lead to decayed wood or hollows".

"Heartrot and wound dressings are twins".

"The wound dressing myth will never die. The sad thing is that the myth is being taught by people who are supposed to be scientists".

"How will we ever get to the excitement of electromagnetic fields when the same old stuff is still being taught: heartrot, wound dressings, plant food, and all types of cure-alls".

"Major Myths - Wood is dead. Heartrot explains decay. Flush cuts are correct. Wound dressings stop rot. Nature is balanced. Fertilizer is food. Wetwood is bad. Planting deeply is good. Rot is a major cause of failure. Water causes decay. Insects and diseases are the major causes of tree problems. Mulch belongs on the trunk flair. There are at least a hundred more".

"Wound dressings take us back to confusion between trees and people again. When you were a child, your mother put some medicine on your cuts and bruises. If you love trees, you should also put some medicine on their cuts and bruises. A well painted wound has been the hallmark of the arborists for centuries. Flush cut and paint have been the recommendations for centuries.
Wound dressings will never go away. The search for a magic medicine to stop rot and to undo all the injurious treatments inflicted on trees by man will continue. The major problem in this entire area is the lack of understanding about trees. Once a person begins to understand how trees are constructed, and how trees respond to wounds, it will be clear to them that wound dressings may hurt more than help the tree.
Wound dressings have been with the tree business in cities, forests, and orchards for many centuries. There were awards given for the best concoctions. Many of the ingredients used are not "nice" to write about. The driving force was to find a material that would block the infection by pathogens. Some other materials were used because they kept the cambium moist, or helped to dry the wound surface, or to kill the pathogens, or to stimulate callus formation, or to keep insects out that carried pathogens, or to keep everything out but to let the wound "breath." Everybody wants to make the perfect dressing, but few people have designed experiments with controls to test their product. Now comes the callus healing confusion again. Many materials will stimulate callus formation. Well! Is this not a stimulation of the healing process? The confusion over basics of tree biology strike again. Callus formation is easy to measure. It is difficult to cut and dissect trees.
Then there are those who say that wound dressings are needed to keep out insects that carry pathogens. These people prune when leaves are forming. This is the natural high period for infection. Flush cuts are also made. So, two serious mistakes are made and now a medicine to undo these mistakes is wanted. Also, there is a difference between dissemination of a pathogen - to carry it from place to place - and transmission of a disease - taking the pathogen to an infection court and having infection occur. My old professor, Dr. J. G. Leach wrote the book on insect transmission of plant diseases. This point he stressed over and over again. People are still missing his point. If branches are pruned properly, and if a pathogen could infect, only a small strip of tissue on the trunk below the branch would be infected. - from A New Tree Biology by Dr. Alex Shigo

 

[Treewound]

Dear "Urban Forester":
I have read many of Shigo's studies and am unfamiliar with some of the quotes that you noted ("picnics and parties under wound dressings" , "Heartrot and wound dressings are twins") and my thread addresses these concerns.
I urge you to take a look at the science that demonstrates the benefits of Tree Wound Dressings in the control of Oak Wilt, Stone Fruit Canker, and several other diseases that are spread by insects or airborne pathogens. There is no disputing the benefits, as I stated it is actually mandatory in some parts of the country at certain times of the year.
As we pointed out, proper pruning methods should always be used, including timing, sharp, clean tools, and correct cuts. However some pruning is done as a result of natural damage, construction, and simply lack of ability to prune at the optimal time of the year..
We do not dispute that mis-use of tree wound dressings can lead to the formation of "pockets" which can lead to the concerns raised by Shigo and others. Tree Wound Dressings should be applied in as thin a layer as possible while still achieving coverage. .When applied properly, these "pockets" or "courts of infection" WILL NOT FORM.
Tree Wound Dressings have also been shown in many studies to reduce dieback, this was even noted by Shigo.
As for protection from insects boring into the tree, Tree Wound Dressings may offer some protection, but in most cases if an insect wants to bore into a tree it will bore into the tree. This is the insects role in nature, a wounded or pruned area probably makes little difference.
If you would like a listing of studies you may contact me at: [email protected]

 

[Ed Roland]

Treewound, welcome to the site. Looking forward to learning more about what Tree Kote can and can not do. Thwart insects, ok. Thwart decay, hmm.

Dear "Urban Forester":
I have read many of Shigo's studies and am unfamiliar with some of the quotes that you noted ("picnics and parties under wound dressings" , "Heartrot and wound dressings are twins") and my thread addresses these concerns.

You will find both those quotes from Dr. Shigo with the following sandwiched between @ Dictionary MAIN PAGE Text & Grap

"The sad thing is that the myth is being taught by people who are supposed to be scientists. There are no data to show that wound dressings prevent or stall decay." - Tree Pithy Points, Shigo 1999

Going further,

"In theory a physical barrier to prevent entry of basidiospores should be an effective means of wound protection against C. purpureum. However, an impermeable barrier must stay adhered to the wound surface which is difficult because of the high moisture content of xylem tissues. Therefore, any barrier must be porous to enable gas exchange yet still preclude basidiospore entry."

Can Tree Kote do this?

"Fresh wounds are colonised by a natural succession of fungi and bacteria which can limit and even preclude C. purpureum infection (Spiers & Hopcroft 1988). For this reason it is better not to apply ineffective fungicides or dressings to wounds. Such products may prevent the natural wound flora from developing and hence can facilitate C. purpureum infection (Gendle et al. 1983; Mercer et al. 1983)" New Zealand Journal of Crop and Horticultural Science, 1997, Vol.25: 19—31

Can Tree Kote allow for that?

Any electron microscopy of TreeKote following field exposure?

Thanks
ed

 

[Treewound]

I thank you for your response, but with all due respect I would like to point out that the best reason for applying Tree Wound Dressing (applied properly) is to help control the spread of diseases such as Oak Wilt, Dutch Elm, Fire Blight, several c"canker" diseases, silver Leaf disease and Sapstreak disease in Maples, and many others. There is un-disputable evidence demonstrating these benefits.
The focus of the work that you site is really a result of mis-use, or over application. When applied in a thin coat, the Tree Wound Dressing will control the spread of diseases and reduce die-back.
The natural recovery (not healing) of a tree is done by compartmentalizing, or internally sealing off the wounded area. Tree Wound Dressing are only needed and effective in the time immediately or very soon after the pruning or injury. Where they help reduce the dieback and protect from air and insect vectors. Once the tree has compartmentalized the wounded area the sap will no longer flow (attracting insect vectors), and the airborne pathogens do not enter at least not as effectively.
The concerns about an "impermiable barrier" will be eliminated, or at least greatly reduced if applied properly. Within about the same time as the tree compartmentalizes the area , the Treekote will wear down enough that it will no longer be an impermiable barrier.
You also refer to Shogo's reports. I would like to point out that niether the 1977 study - Wound Dressings on Red Maple and American ELM; Effectivnes after five Years or the 1983 study; Wound Dressings: Results of Studies Over 13 years considers the question of disease control. Shigo also points out that "Treekote Made No Decay Prevention Claims".
The 13 year study showed that wounds treated with Treekote vs. Untreated wounds had a lower occurance of decay causing fingi, a lower area of discolored wood(an indication of decay) and less dieback. With these facts, coupled with the everwhelming evidence that they can help control the spread of diseases, it is irresponsible to not properly apply Tree Wound Dressings.
Even Shigo's 1977 Five year study where he finds, using electronic resistance to measure decay in samples, the wound that were treated with Treekote had less resitence, indicating more decay, that the wounds treated with Treekote actually had the same number of sample trees that had decay causing fungi and that the Treekote treated wounds had better wound closure.

 

[Urban Forester]

Dear "Urban Forester":
I have read many of Shigo's studies and am unfamiliar with some of the quotes that you noted ("picnics and parties under wound dressings" , "Heartrot and wound dressings are twins") and my thread addresses these concerns.

You can google the quotes, which will confirm their authenticity. As I said in the opening paragraph, wound dressings do have their uses, limited (in my opinion). As a "general" use item they are NOT needed and in my paticular area we have the ability to prune Oaks during the insect vectors dormant period as directed by the USFS and our "northern zone" university extension services. As far as DED goes, most infections are made at branch collars by Elm Bark Beetles that have existing branches (not fresh pruning cuts). A vast majority of the infected elms I've dealt with over 25 years have not been pruned in years. Wound dressing would've not done anything to "protect" these trees. This site brings in alot of people that are trying to learn and as such have varying degrees of knowledge, regarding CODIT and most other areas of tree biology and physiology. Sharing concepts, ideas is important, and should continue. But under no conditions do I wish to see the "idea" that tree wound dressing is an "automatic use" item, even as a potential disease reduction tool. I stress that it does have its place but it is only ONE tool in the Arborists "tool box" and that it should be used in accordance with the CODIT model, which simply does NOT indicate a regular need.

 

[Treewound]

Del:

In response to your comments about "back door advertising" I would like to point out that Shigo's 1983 -13 year study specifies that "Treekote" was used,(leading many to assume that the 5 year study of 1977 which used " a thick asphalt-type material also used Treekote) and the Powell study of 2007 on controlling Oak Wilt specifically noted the benefits of "Treekote".
This certainly gives us the right to both respond to the negatives and point out the positives.