Tree Owners Manual

[treevet]

New "Tree Owner's Manual".....any comments. I have found some objectionable stuff from the "experts".

http://na.fs.fed.us/pubs/uf/tom/090202_tom_hr.pdf

 

[outofmytree]

At first glance it seemed quite useful TV. What did I miss?

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

It could be better, but I would not object to it's use. An example in the young tree pruning; I would subordinate the co-dom as opposed to removal. Home owners and labor type pruners tend towards mangled cuts here, I'd rather see a subordinated branch mangled then the dominant terminal.

I do like the advisement of cyclical root examination, and checking for encircling roots at planting.

 

[treevet]

I have not read the whole thing yet today as I just received it but on page 8 it suggests using a sharp thick metal probe to search for roots under backfill in the packaging (ball/container). How are they found?? ....Well by making contact and, IMO, injuring them.

Next suggestion on a similar note.....take a handsaw once you have found that level of the root system and saw in towards the tree to remove back fill. And, again, how do you know you have reached the root collar?? Well, of course by making contact with the stem/buttress and again, IMO, causing injury to delicate precious tissue.

Wouldn't it seem this document, with an ISA staffer involved, is stepping on the feet of the ANSI and Best Mgt. Practices informationals?

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I use a screwdriver to look for roots. Though I look for a visible flair and FOR's before purchase. Selection is the first step in survival of an installation.

 

[treevet]

It could be better, but I would not object to it's use. An example in the young tree pruning; I would subordinate the co-dom as opposed to removal. Home owners and labor type pruners tend towards mangled cuts here, I'd rather see a subordinated branch mangled then the dominant terminal.

Agreed. Pls. send in suggestions. It is just hot off the press I think.

I do like the advisement of cyclical root examination, and checking for encircling roots at planting.

Ditto, but what do you do with them? You can tease some out and sever some, but it is difficult to get them all if they are in mass. There is a nursery here that has gone entirely to container growing and they are cultivated in the container until sold in the ground. This offers a lot of advantages for the nursery but I witnessed numerous trees that had sent roots through the holes that were meant to pass excess water and it is quite damaging to get them out of the ground.

Just the age old conflict of what is a better product.....one dug with no girdlers or one not dug and no root damage but almost certainly will have a myriad of girdlers.

 

[treevet]

I use a screwdriver to look for roots. Though I look for a visible flair and FOR's before purchase. Selection is the first step in survival of an installation.

I use my fingers and a brush. Agreed "selection" but might include "intelligent and educated selection"

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Ditto, but what do you do with them? You can tease some out and sever some, but it is difficult to get them all if they are in mass.

I read a study that claimed that any encircling roots that ended up under the FOR's were not a problem. It's been a number of years, so i do not know if that has been refuted.

 

[treevet]

I read a study that claimed that any encircling roots that ended up under the FOR's were not a problem. It's been a number of years, so i do not know if that has been refuted.

that is really interesting and encouraging. If you trip over that study again fire it up on here.

 

[treeseer]

Davue, along with subordination being skipped over, the 1/3"Rule" is again codified. Dogma on top of dogma, with overpruning encouraged..

yes sawing the roots vs. washing or frazzling is dangerous advice to tree owners also.

lots of good in there tho, and it has been out for some time (you really ought to leave OH once in a while so comment all you wnat but it will change diddly, sad to say.

since it is aimed at tree owners, competition with bmp's may not be a great concern.

 

[treevet]

thanks for your input Guaye

Tree vette

 

[BC WetCoast]

Agreed. Pls. send in suggestions. It is just hot off the press I think.



Ditto, but what do you do with them? You can tease some out and sever some, but it is difficult to get them all if they are in mass. There is a nursery here that has gone entirely to container growing and they are cultivated in the container until sold in the ground. This offers a lot of advantages for the nursery but I witnessed numerous trees that had sent roots through the holes that were meant to pass excess water and it is quite damaging to get them out of the ground.

Just the age old conflict of what is a better product.....one dug with no girdlers or one not dug and no root damage but almost certainly will have a myriad of girdlers.

The largest wholesale grower/nursery in the area doesn't want the planters to remove burlap or cages (making it difficult to work the roots) and will removal voids the grower's guarantee. They claim to have a tying technique that prevents string girdling.

 

[treevet]

The largest wholesale grower/nursery in the area doesn't want the planters to remove burlap or cages (making it difficult to work the roots) and will removal voids the grower's guarantee. They claim to have a tying technique that prevents string girdling.

We cut the cage back to half so the "cage" doesn't do the girdling when the root plate attains that size. We just take the burlap back off the top as it degrades if it is true burlap.

Here is a great little tool for planting.....dig the hole with the stump grinder, pinch the ball and drive it over the hole, center, and let er drop.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Zilmer, et. al. at the central WI tech College, (can't remember, it's in WI Rapids...) talk about how not disturbing the ball is BS, since it is so abused in handling from the field to the garden center. Get down an tear the top apart so you can find the FOR's then install accordingly.

With the install high concept, you can wash it off with a garden hose and fill in with amended soil as needed.

Anyone see the P.A. Smith segment where he anchors the ball with a section of rebar? I brought it up here a few years ago and the stump grinding guys flipped.

How many of you have wrapped a basket around the disk and had to cut it out in small pieces?

 

[treevet]

Zilmer, et. al. at the central WI tech College, (can't remember, it's in WI Rapids...) talk about how not disturbing the ball is BS, since it is so abused in handling from the field to the garden center. Get down an tear the top apart so you can find the FOR's then install accordingly.

With the install high concept, you can wash it off with a garden hose and fill in with amended soil as needed.

Anyone see the P.A. Smith segment where he anchors the ball with a section of rebar? I brought it up here a few years ago and the stump grinding guys flipped.

How many of you have wrapped a basket around the disk and had to cut it out in small pieces?

I've cut a thousand baskets w my stump grinders but rebar.....ouch!

In a perfect world all the stock comes from level ground and is installed in level ground, but in reality sometimes you have to plant one on the side of a hill and it is always a compromise on both the high side and the low side.

Maybe a good niche market to grow a nursery on the side of a hill??

 

[ROOTSXROCKS]

Should we really be looking forward to the stump grinder when planting the tree?

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Should we really be looking forward to the stump grinder when planting the tree?

Odds are the tree will not last 20 years, so we should be planning for it; or at least thinking about the guy who will have to do the job someday.

 

[treeseer]

Rebar way extreme

2x2 pine will secure

 

[ROOTSXROCKS]

Zilmer, et. al. at the central WI tech College, (can't remember, it's in WI Rapids...) talk about how not disturbing the ball is BS, since it is so abused in handling from the field to the garden center. Get down an tear the top apart so you can find the FOR's then install accordingly.

With the install high concept, you can wash it off with a garden hose and fill in with amended soil as needed.

Anyone see the P.A. Smith segment where he anchors the ball with a section of rebar? I brought it up here a few years ago and the stump grinding guys flipped.

How many of you have wrapped a basket around the disk and had to cut it out in small pieces?

I disagree, every stage of the balling and digging puts the tree into shock that it has to recover from, all unnecessary stress should be avoided.

an important step I often see over looked or ignored here is proper planting in that the hole should be filled partially with water prior to the back fill to "set the tree" solid. and then further filled and manipulated to remove all air pockets the suction from the water going down pulls the ground solid and creates a firm socket to hold the tree .


I all the time see the trees being watered after the back-fill has been put in.

the tree should be pretty damn solid prior to the staking.

 

[treevet]

I agree with the half way watering in.

But the most obvious need for a staking (I rarely do it) is in containerized trees where the weight of the top to root area is much more in favor of the top.