Were these trees cut back too much?

[DebBD]

Just yesterday, I had an arborist come in and trim and shape my Japanese Maple and River Birch it looks like he cut way too much. Looking for advice and insight. Will they grow back and look normal? Or is there a chance that they will die. I am in southeast Michigan after and before pictures. Thank you in advance.

 

[Tobystihl]

I don't have any issues with the work, most of the lower branches would have started to die off anyway due to lack of sunlight, the crowns have been lifted, the trees will now concentrate on higher growth and I'm sure will thrive

 

[Bullseye T&L]

I guess the big question is what did you tell the arborist you wanted done? And were they a certified arborist?
There's pruning for health (dead/diseased/damaged branches, etc), then there's pruning for aesthetics. It's the aesthetic pruning that can be pretty variable from one pro to the next, and a lot of that depends on what the client says they want.

 

[DebBD]

I guess the big question is what did you tell the arborist you wanted done? And were they a certified arborist?
There's pruning for health (dead/diseased/damaged branches, etc), then there's pruning for aesthetics. It's the aesthetic pruning that can be pretty variable from one pro to the next, and a lot of that depends on what the client says they want.

I wanted it trimmed and shaped. It was also blocking part of my outside cameras so I asked if he could trim that back. He is a certified arborist. After he finished, I questioned why he took of so much. He said he could not just cut it back a foot, that he had to go to the trunk. If I would have known that beforehand, my husband and i would have been able to discuss it and decide which way we wanted to go

 

[Bullseye T&L]

He said he could not just cut it back a foot, that he had to go to the trunk.

He is correct on that. Making "stub" cuts, which are called heading cuts, is a really bad thing to do on trees. Yes, it is common in the DIY world, but it's not a good thing for tree. Shrubs, it's okay mostly. So if he had a branch that had some leafy tips that needed to be removed, and there wasn't another suitable interior side branch on that limb to cut back to, then he has to go all the back until he finds a suitable side branch. Sometimes that's the trunk. Without some really detailed before and after, I'd just have to trust that he did what was necessary and according to good practice. Based on how thick and bushy the maple was before though, it would not surprise me if there wasn't any suitable interior side branches to cut to. I see this all the time.

I hate it when these things happen because there might be some hard feelings. I see lots of trees, including Japanese maples, that have been left to grow without having been pruned properly on any regular schedule. "Properly" meaning something that is more in depth than what the average client is aware of and really amounts to training the tree to grow to the form you ultimately want. Sometimes in these case, you just don't have lot of options and have to make some extreme cuts. Sometimes the arborist doesn't explain that very well to client, and sometimes client just doesn't hear what the arborist is telling them. Not saying that that is the case here at all, just giving you some background from an arborists point of view.

 

[DebBD]

He is correct on that. Making "stub" cuts, which are called heading cuts, is a really bad thing to do on trees. Yes, it is common in the DIY world, but it's not a good thing for tree. Shrubs, it's okay mostly. So if he had a branch that had some leafy tips that needed to be removed, and there wasn't another suitable interior side branch on that limb to cut back to, then he has to go all the back until he finds a suitable side branch. Sometimes that's the trunk. Without some really detailed before and after, I'd just have to trust that he did what was necessary and according to good practice. Based on how thick and bushy the maple was before though, it would not surprise me if there wasn't any suitable interior side branches to cut to. I see this all the time.

I hate it when these things happen because there might be some hard feelings. I see lots of trees, including Japanese maples, that have been left to grow without having been pruned properly on any regular schedule. "Properly" meaning something that is more in depth than what the average client is aware of and really amounts to training the tree to grow to the form you ultimately want. Sometimes in these case, you just don't have lot of options and have to make some extreme cuts. Sometimes the arborist doesn't explain that very well to client, and sometimes client just doesn't hear what the arborist is telling them. Not saying that that is the case here at all, just giving you some background from an arborists point of view.

Appreciate the information

 

[Bullseye T&L]

Appreciate the information

You're welcome. You know, funny thing is that I've pruned trees like yours before and gone in like a fine hair dresser and tried to remove only was absolutely necessary, and patted myself on the back afterwards. Only to have the client come out and say "I thought you were going to get rid of all those low branches. Good communication is certainly the key.

 

[DebBD]

You're welcome. You know, funny thing is that I've pruned trees like yours before and gone in like a fine hair dresser and tried to remove only was absolutely necessary, and patted myself on the back afterwards. Only to have the client come out and say "I thought you were going to get rid of all those low branches. Good communication is certainly the key.

Agreed

 

[ATH]

Agree - the big question is what was the initial discussion.

The Japanese maple looks lifted a little higher than I may have done, but based on a few pictures that's hard to say for sure.

Personally, I would have tried to do more to that River birch to reduce some of that mass of co-dominate leaders. But, again...what discussion did you have with the arborist about what you wanted done? Certainly doesn't look like too much off of the birch.

 

[DebBD]

I don't have any issues with the work, most of the lower branches would have started to die off anyway due to lack of sunlight, the crowns have been lifted, the trees will now concentrate on higher growth and I'm sure will thrive

Thank you

 

[DebBD]

Agree - the big question is what was the initial discussion.

The Japanese maple looks lifted a little higher than I may have done, but based on a few pictures that's hard to say for sure.

Personally, I would have tried to do more to that River birch to reduce some of that mass of co-dominate leaders. But, again...what discussion did you have with the arborist about what you wanted done? Certainly doesn't look like too much off of the birch.

I wanted it trimmed and shaped. It was also blocking part of my outside cameras so I asked if he could trim that back. He is a certified arborist. After he finished, I questioned why he took of so much. He said he could not just cut it back a foot, that he had to go to the trunk. If I would have known that beforehand, my husband and i would have been able to discuss it and decide which way we wanted to go. The Birch he took off a 3" 10' branch that was on the house side.

 

[ATH]

Possibly helped tremendously in the long term taking of that branch while it was relatively small... another 10 years it probably would have doubled in size making it significantly more difficult to keep away from the house???

"Shaping" is pretty vague/nondescript term. Did you want it shared? We'd have given a hard "no" on that...but would have also taken time to explain why.

 

[Bullseye T&L]

"Shaping" is pretty vague/nondescript term. Did you want it shared? We'd have given a hard "no" on that...but would have also taken time to explain why.

I wanted it trimmed and shaped.

Yes, I always ask for more specifics when a customer says they want "shaped". Shaping is a term that is generally reserved for shrubs, though it has some limited meaning when working on the structure of a tree.

The last time I didn't ask a customer to be more specific when they said they wanted a tree "shaped" was neglected crape myrtle. She was a really good customer, and said she trusted me and I could just what I thought was best. When I was done, she wasn't happy and wanted to know why I didn't "shape" it. She literally could not find the words to describe what she was talking about. After much discussion, I figured out that she wanted me to just shear the whole thing like shrub, and cut the top flat. I gave her a hard "no" but convinced her to just trust me and give it a shot with what I did. This is what it looked like the following spring.



I drove by later in the year, and her yard guy had topped it to about 5 feet. It was finally shaped.

 

[DebBD]

Yes, I always ask for more specifics when a customer says they want "shaped". Shaping is a term that is generally reserved for shrubs, though it has some limited meaning when working on the structure of a tree.

The last time I didn't ask a customer to be more specific when they said they wanted a tree "shaped" was neglected crape myrtle. She was a really good customer, and said she trusted me and I could just what I thought was best. When I was done, she wasn't happy and wanted to know why I didn't "shape" it. She literally could not find the words to describe what she was talking about. After much discussion, I figured out that she wanted me to just shear the whole thing like shrub, and cut the top flat. I gave her a hard "no" but convinced her to just trust me and give it a shot with what I did. This is what it looked like the following spring.

View attachment 1219797

I drove by later in the year, and her yard guy had topped it to about 5 feet. It was finally shaped.

Thank you

 

[DebBD]

Possibly helped tremendously in the long term taking of that branch while it was relatively small... another 10 years it probably would have doubled in size making it significantly more difficult to keep away from the house???

"Shaping" is pretty vague/nondescript term. Did you want it shared? We'd have given a hard "no" on that...but would have also taken time to explain why.

Thank you

 

[fishdrivel]

The river birch loo

Just yesterday, I had an arborist come in and trim and shape my Japanese Maple and River Birch it looks like he cut way too much. Looking for advice and insight. Will they grow back and look normal? Or is there a chance that they will die. I am in southeast Michigan after and before pictures. Thank you in advance.

ks fine. The Japanese Maple looks butt-ugly but will survive. I would never trim a Japanese Maple that way.

One of the early lessons in arboriculture is all pruning is harmful. You dont cut your big toe of your left foot because it "sticks out"
Pruning should be well thought out - hopefully by an expert.

I'm sure there will be those that misunderstand my statement........

 

[Bullseye T&L]

ks fine. The Japanese Maple looks butt-ugly but will survive. I would never trim a Japanese Maple that way.

One of the early lessons in arboriculture is all pruning is harmful. You dont cut your big toe of your left foot because it "sticks out"

Not really directed at your comment, but honestly you're right. That maple is butt ugly. It was butt ugly in form before the arborist even arrived. Whoever did the pruning prior to him missed some major opportunities. There are two places where limbs are crossing (one of those the limbs starting to grow together) and both are growing into another limbs space so to speak. Those should have been remedied a long time ago when the tree was young, or at least put on a long term plan for removal. Also, the tree is planted too deep, or at least the mulch has been allowed to pile up, and I don't know for sure because it is fall, but all that dieback on the tips could be related to that. If I saw that tree, I would be addressing those things as well, and it they didn't want to discuss, I would likely just refer them to another arborist. Lastly, all that foliage cut out from the middle of the tree, well that perfectly correlates with the view from the window. IDK, gotta wonder what else was said in that conversation.