Tree Paint

[Oxman]

My old friend Mike Oxman came to visit me this weekend and informed that my former employer and mentor John Britton has passed away. John and his wife denise Frolich were instrumental in the development of the certification program in the 80s. I went to work for John and denise in 88 after I myself became certified. This was the golden age of certification it used to be such a big deal, and I wanted to learn this trade from the real experts, people with college degrees. Befor I became certified every new employer was a challenge because every arborist had a different way of pruning than the former. Now the certification exam is world wide and there are thousands of us who have benifitted from it. Because John Britton lived he has made the urban forest and our lives richer...he will be missed.

check your root crowns to determine the extent of root rot befor climbing.

Prune shade trees with hand pruners

clean out all the dead twigs in diseased trees.

John Kakouris
wc isa certified arborist #379

twigs ,branches killed by the disease becomes inoculant:angel:

 

[Rob Murphy]

Dirt

[" try rubbing mud or dirt into the injury. Soil has anti biotic properties and chewing or boring insects dislike the tiny particles. Diatamatious earth has been used to treat wood for carpenter ants and termites for years.

John Kakouris
WC isa Certified arborist #379 [/B][/QUOTE]


I too have used dirt on wounds.to make mud just add water and it is available in most places where trees grow!!

 

[Wulkowicz]

Originally posted by Oxman
My old friend Mike Oxman came to visit me this weekend and informed that my former employer and mentor John Britton has passed away. John and his wife denise Frolich were instrumental in the development of the certification program in the 80s. I went to work for John and denise in 88 after I myself became certified. This was the golden age of certification it used to be such a big deal, and I wanted to learn this trade from the real experts, people with college degrees. Befor I became certified every new employer was a challenge because every arborist had a different way of pruning than the former. Now the certification exam is world wide and there are thousands of us who have benifitted from it. Because John Britton lived he has made the urban forest and our lives richer...he will be missed.

Thank you for telling us about John Britton.

Trees, and the ethics of professionalism and stewardship, need all the help they can get these days, so the death of someone so dedicated will be felt in many ways. When that person is a friend, we can't help but take stock of what we have done together, and what we will do without him. May he teach us as well, that same courage, tenacity, and wisdom he has shared with his wife, his friends and his colleauges.


Bob Wulkowicz

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Dirt is usually freely available, even around poison ivy! Dirt is sometimes my first absorbing/ drying line of defense, do to availability (or lack of) other immediate options. Have only got it bad 2x, think that quick action helps.

Respects to the Britton Families and relations, and appreciation of a life well lived.

 

[Oxman]

For those who didn't have a chance to meet John Britton, there is a link to remember him by at: NAA obituaries website

John was the ISA rep to the ANSI Z133 committee for many years. John was given to understatement, and could say quite a bit in just a few words. Because of his vast experience, he was able to put a lot into the few points he elected to persue. His style was very conciliatory and low key until it came to a point important enough to not back down from. Then he was a bulldog fighting for the rights of trees and arborists. We are lucky to have had this man on our side during these talks.

Over the years, John and his wife Denice, and others on this committee (like Don Blair) visited different ISA chapter conferences and presented progress reports on the ongoing saga. It's a very comforting feeling to know that our future is in the hands of this competent group of volunteers.

I know many arborists who have never attended a tree industry conference, meeting, seminar, workshop or jamboree. I realize they feel they have important things to do. It saddens me that they can continue to reap the benefits of organization without a clue to the sometimes tedious committee work that has gone into laying the groundwork for their benefit.

If folks would just pitch in and make a payment on the interest that their predecessors put down, we could really take off on an interesting journey. Instead of our clientele hearing a different story from each arborist they encounter, we would have a unified front that can improve the quality of life for people, by taking good care of our trees.

About 20 years ago I rember reading an obituary in Arborist News about another dedicated tree person that had a real effect on me. It was written in the first person by his wife after he died early from a brief illness. He had also been very active in promoting our trade association activities, like John Britton.

His regret was that there was not enough time for him to become president of the ISA to accomplish essential tasks to tighten up the effectiveness of our group effort, and improve the lives of arborists everywhere.

When we healthy people squander the short time we have available in ineffective, inconsequential blather, we are missing the incredible opportunity of making a difference in other people's lives. The horrible waste of mental decrepitude as we lollygag about our business would be a tremendous chance for one of these dedicated arborists who have passed on early. It's an inspiration to get busy and get done what is needed, for we may never have the chance again.

 

[Gopher]

One very good discussion. Nice to see you are "on-line", Fred, at an early hour.

The one comment that Bob mentions, "Tree time" does not take into account that WE are here, and that pristine tree time does not exist in the purest form.

Many times I have read and listened to professionals debate over numerous sides to all sorts of natural and enviromental issues. Great thought provoking discussion, with no real right or wrong answers. Usually at some point, the topic of "natural", or "virgin" or "un-altered" comes up. Well, no matter how hard we try, we are here.

There are more and more of us every day, fighting for the same space, the same air, the same beer (oops, maybe not that one!) that the trees we care about need as well. In a controlled setting, the tree sealant/paint argument would be more easily debated. We don't have that.

What we have is a willingness to educate people who like trees enough to have them around, and entrust us to make sure they (and hopefully their grandkids) will continue to enjoy. As long as we can show them that we are open-minded to applying the best known techniques for the time, and can give them reasons (both for and against) for doing so, let them feel good about their decision. If, as in the "55+" example where the people were kept happy, it allows more time to allow the arborist to further educate and do even more good work for them, then so be it. As long as what was painted, sealed, gooped on, tarred, didn't grossly effect the length of "tree-time" as we know it, then do what is needed and we will spend more milllions figuring out why our brains hurt from wondering why we did what we did. (Yikes, run on, much?!)

"...And out again I curve and flow
To join the brimming river,
For men may come and men may go,
But I go on forever."

from "The Brook" - Alfred Tennyson

Gopher

 

[Oxman]

Tree Time

Tree time is an abhorrant concept to arborists. It removes our egotistical contribution to the arboreal imperative. Our manifest destiny is to whittle away, removing any impediment to future tree growth.

Why, then, do ancient urban trees collapse? With the intensive aid we provide, especially with the application of our considerable expertise, a tree should become immortal. All of its physical and physiological needs are provided for by its benefactor, man.

When a small limb is removed becaused it is 'dying', are we allowing enough 'tree time' for callus formation to add to trunk taper? If the limb is left until 5 or 10 years have passed, the stub falls off, and wound closure occurs, then the cone of callus tissue forming the limb scar beefs up the trunk for the betterment of the tree. This 'scar' stores energy and has all kinds of other side benefits, to boot. The tree didn't need us for that at all.

When we get into preventive treatments or corrective pruning operations where it is obvious human intervention is beneficial, we can still feel good about what we do. But hindsight may just reveal our supposed 'advances' resulted in meddling for our own gratification & profit.

 

[Gopher]

Great words, Oxman. Now I can tell my wife when I had a porr month that actually I am doing a better job of "listening" to the trees and leaving them be!

Well, I've got a ton of willow to eradicate in the next couple of days, so even with sub zero temperatures, I'll bring home the bacon doing meanial labor.

And where we can't leave that limb to Ma Nature as to when it will fall off and land on the kid's head, there will be enough to keep us in milk.

Gopher

P.S. I didn't previously se the words about the passing of Mr. Britton. Sounds like a great guy to learn anything from is in a better place than we.

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Re: Tree Time

Originally posted by Oxman

When a small limb is removed becaused it is 'dying', are we allowing enough 'tree time' for callus formation to add to trunk taper? If the limb is left until 5 or 10 years have passed, the stub falls off, and wound closure occurs, then the cone of callus tissue forming the limb scar beefs up the trunk for the betterment of the tree. This 'scar' stores energy and has all kinds of other side benefits, to boot. The tree didn't need us for that at all.

When we get into preventive treatments or corrective pruning operations where it is obvious human intervention is beneficial, we can still feel good about what we do. But hindsight may just reveal our supposed 'advances' resulted in meddling for our own gratification & profit. [/B]

Mike, there's a compromise between meddling and waiting for natural processes: a more natural form of meddling.

Outside the first branch collar are often swollen rings of stem tissue creeping out the branch. If we look closely and cut to one of those, we allow the tree to form that cone of callus tissue or burl you describe.

The worst kind of meddling is the inflexible kind. If we're stuck on one "right" place to make the cut because "stubs are always bad", we take too much off and damage the tree. If we read the tree's natural targets, we anticipate nature and act as part of it.

And the more we act as part of nature, the more we earn the gratification we feel from what we do. As a climbing arborist par excellence, you should know that. THose who don't go into the trees can't understand as well. This talk about humans and nature being separate is false; we are part of it. The trick is to act like it.

 

[Oxman]

ArboristSite is actually a mental gymnastics workout. Thanks for sweeping out some of the cobwebs. The rest of you, grab a broom! Welcome to our version of the video game that the Army distributes to its forces, and the general public.

I'm not saying we are guessing. Since this forum is composed of thinking arborists, we have lattitude to make professional judgements. We are engaged in a discussion of splitting hairs, of which the exercise keeps us on our toes.

This is a good group of arborists to come up with more instances of 'Tree Time'. Perhaps they can actually be compiled into a list of specifications of when to 'hold off' implementing treatments until the subsequent wound response has demarcated the boundary of cambial dieback.

One instance that comes to mind is assessment following fire. Can't we really tell better how extensive the damage is if the stimulated dormant buds are allowed to pop the following spring? This delay could require the consulting arborist to keep the case file open for awhile. Yes, it pads the pockets, but, aren't these folks asking for the 'best available information & care' for their tree?

As we listen & compromise (as my illustrious contemporaries portend) between the need to expeditiously 'solve' a problem of excess gowth in need if removal, and the potential desireability of that growths' contribution to a certain anatomical portion of the plants metabolic structure, we are speeding up nature.

Let's keep the pedal off the metal.

By going too fast, we may be testing the mettle of the petal.

(Sorry for the pun, mixed metaphors, etc., etc..)

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Glad your sticking around Guy!

 

[FBerkel]

"Why, then, do ancient urban trees collapse? With the intensive aid we provide, especially with the application of our considerable expertise, a tree should become immortal. All of its physical and physiological needs are provided for by its benefactor, man."

Mike,

Your point is well taken. Another example would be in the case of storm damage occuring in the fall. Many customers request additional pruning (at this stressful time in the annual cycle). Probably better to give the tree a year or more to recoup energy.

In some cases, though, our lack of "meddling" can lead to the same decaying result. e.g: dead branches that take 30 years to fall off, and not always at the wound-wood target. The amount of decay introduced by such would be much greater than if it had just been removed by one of us. Depends on the species. (don't take the meddle to the popple?)

 

[Gopher]

Tree-time extrordinaire

By posing the questions, sometimes answering them ourselves, but always looking for the best solution for the tree will always benefit all involved.

Maybe to use a quip from an ad, "...We will serve no wine before it's time." (I believe it was Ernest & Julio Gallo), we should sell ourselves with, "We will cut no tree before it's time."

"A young man is so strong, so mad, so certain, and so lost.
He has everything and he is able to use nothing."
-Thomas Wolfe, Of Time and the River

Sounds like me, but I'm not so young...

Gopher

 

[geofore]

time

Paul Masson ad, the best of their wine is still in the cellar.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Excellent discussion, hope Wulke comes back and starts another!

 

[Guy Meilleur]

This is a good group of arborists to come up with more instances of 'Tree Time'. Perhaps they can actually be compiled into a list of specifications of when to 'hold off' implementing treatments until the subsequent wound response has demarcated the boundary of cambial dieback.

One instance that comes to mind is assessment following fire. Can't we really tell better how extensive the damage is if the stimulated dormant buds are allowed to pop the following spring? This delay could require the consulting arborist to keep the case file open for awhile. Yes, it pads the pockets, but, aren't these folks asking for the 'best available information & care' for their tree?

Mike You'll see two good examples when you get back here to Ice-Land. On one Dunlap held off on taking a big lower branch back to the trunk even tho it was decaying. I saw Hypoxylon just outside the collar, thought hmm maybe it should come off now to lessen H's entry into the trunk then hmm maybe this 12" dia. 12' long stub can stay to see if more collar will form a la bw's "codit pruning" hypothesis.
I decided to hold off for now since I KNOW I'll be back in a year.

Another hold-off on action was on a 30" Q. nigra trunk-damaged by fire. Tom D, jps and scarlata all concurred on waiting for the tree to show its response.
A bigger factor for me in prolonging the project is not padding my pocket but keeping track so I'm SURE to re-check in a year. Even when customers are willing to pay, they too can forget about the need to followup.

Yes the presentation went well but cutting to nodes that aren't crotches still bothers even open-minded arborists. Despite citations that Shigo, Niklas, Schwarze, ANSI, etc etc condone the practice of cutting to nodes that aren't crotches (heading cuts), all "stubs" are evil in the eyes of those who don't re-look at the references once in a while.

It's like my eqpt supplier tells me, when in doubt, read the directions!

O and re John Britton I saw him just once, presenting root-collar checks at the ASCA conf in napa, 97 I think. Common sense, lack of pretension made him an excellent teacher and role model.
It's up to us to carry on.