Tree Planting

[Tree Frog]

Been finding a lot of trees girdled with ball twine and wire baskets in place. Seems that people around here have been recommending that they leave the baskets in place (supposed to decay) and the string in place for the ball to maintain rootball integraty (for the first year).

My question is that ANSI and ISA states to remove 1/3. Has there been new studies to change this planting standard and where can I find this information?

 

[nitwit dolt]

Ball Studies

Check w/ Bartlett Tree Labs, last I heard, they recieved a Gov't. grant for 3/4 of a million to study the effects of basket on or off.

 

[antigrassguy]

wire basket

The wire basket controversy has been on going for some time now. Bonnie Appleton has a ongoing study and has an article in Journal of Arborculture maybe 2 years ago. I believe that ISA is sponsoring her work. My opinion is that they should be removed as they really play havoc with a stump grinder.

 

[treeseer]

"people around here have been recommending that they leave the baskets in place (supposed to decay) and the string in place for the ball to maintain rootball integraty (for the first year)."

That is pure bs. It makes no sense at all and as you say is contrary to ANSI and BMP's. These were just published last year so no, there is no new science to refute them and imo there never will be. String, burlap and basket all come off the top of the rootball immediately after the tree is set in place.

Anyone who recommends otherwise can and should be held responsible for the failure of the plant.

 

[jrizman]

i see this all the time too. i wonder why. i saw several hundred trees installed on a berm infront of a development. these trees had the burlap completely wrapped around the trunk still. they were put in the ground off the back of a truck and buried with soil. i tried to talk to the supervisor, but none of the workers spoke english and were not interested (i gave em my number and never heard).
now it is spring and over 2/3rds of them are dead. seems to me it would have cost significantly less money to take the time to remove the burlap.
We usually cut as much of the burlap as we can from the root ball after the tree is in the hole. the baskets are removed and all ties are also removed. burlap will decompose, and most roots should be able to penetrate it. a few extra minutes ensures that the roots will be able to take hold in the newly planted hole.
i can not explain why this is occuring, but i do know that most of the trees i see installed with such carelessness are dieing.

 

[treeseer]

i can not explain why this is occuring, but i do know that most of the trees i see installed with such carelessness are dieing.

It's occurring because of non-enforcement by slack city workers and ignorance and/or apathy by everyone else. The city's waiting for you to raise the issue to them--do it!

 

[jrizman]

this is rural county property... i can get in touch with the forestry dept, but i dunno if they will do anything.
thanks for the thought, its worth a shot!

 

[Lumberjacked]

you definitely do not want to remove anything (wire basket, burlap) before you get the tree in the hole. If you do you run the risk of the root ball falling apart, then you are as bad off if you left everything together. What I do is remove about 1/2 of the burlap and wire basket from within the hole and then cut "X's" in the remaining burlap to allow for better root penetration through the burlap. Yeah I have seen many landscape jobs done by the reputable "big guys" around here where they just plop tree in the hole and cover it up, I then tell the customer and they are dumbfounded...oh well

 

[Tree Frog]

Ok, that is what I thought. I had a feeling that the method of leaving everything in tacked was to increase production and fell into the "monkey see, monkey do" catagory. I guess all I can say is job security on that one.

Next question is the single treated stake attached to the trunk in the diagnal manner. Are we talking bad idea? I use two redwood stakes, I have found them to flex better than pine.

 

[treeseer]

Ok, that is what I thought. I had a feeling that the method of leaving everything in tacked was to increase production and fell into the "monkey see, monkey do" catagory. I guess all I can say is job security on that one.

Next question is the single treated stake attached to the trunk in the diagnal manner. Are we talking bad idea? I use two redwood stakes, I have found them to flex better than pine.

Yes two stakes is what you will find in the BMP's, if you spend the $8. to get them (is there a better investment? NO). Trunk's gotta move to thicken. Diagonal staking makes trees fall over later.

And yes it's all monkey doodoo and job security. Every county has a forest ranger, and planners, and commissioners who would be very interested to know that taxpayer$ money's being ripped off by monkeys seeking job security.

Raise Hades!

 

[maxburton]

You can leave twine and metal baskets! Think about it: how many of us have seen trees grow right into wire fences? They have no problem with it unless there's a girdling situation, but with a thin little wire that won't happen. I have a piece of root I found that grew straight into a piece of nylon twine, and it just grew around it on both sides. You can pull the twine back and forth like floss. We've also seen roots growing right through burlap, and I think we can agree that tree roots have more than enough pressure to bust open burlap. However, I've seen burlap that was treated with copper sulfate, which is toxic, to prevent the roots from growing out before the tree is planted. If you don't take that off, they obviously won't survive. But in other cases we usually just fold the burlap down into the hole, since few roots will be growing straight down through it anyway. I've been doing this for almost 10 years, and all of the trees I've planted this way have been fine. Also, I never stake them. If they're planted right, they won't fall down unless there's a hurricaine.

I agree with other posts that taking the burlap off before putting the tree into the hole can have bad results.

 

[Ryan Gossen]

After some informal experiments with coffey-bag burlap burried in my compost heap, I was surprised at how long they held up. It took 2-3 months to break down enoughe for sections of individual threads to be broken.

My question is: will a permeabe barrier like this deflect root caps or will they work through them like they work through soil? If intact burlap can cause a root to make a left turn, 2-3 months might be long enoughe for a newly planted roots to aquire a spiral pattern that would result in them strangling each other when they get bigger.

 

[treeseer]

If intact burlap can cause a root to make a left turn, 2-3 months might be long enoughe for a newly planted roots to aquire a spiral pattern that would result in them strangling each other when they get bigger.

True, and a root hitting wire will be deflected or deformed for the 10-100 years it takes the wire to break down.

Teeth need flossing, not tree roots.:jester:

WE can all agree that wrapping should not come off before the tree is in the hole. We can also agree that this material can do no good after the tree is set in position, so it should all be removed at that time.

 

[Tree Frog]

Besides copper sulfate what other chemicals do they treat burlap with to prevent root growth and how do you identify the treated from the non-treated.

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

One way to tell is that copper compounds will usually stain things green.

 

[M.D. Vaden]

I can't be the only one in Oregon that has seen countless cases of wire girdling or restricting roots.

Heck, send me the 3/4 million. I've already done the research.

Roots may grow through openings in wire, but it sure can't expand past it without damage.

And those excavated tree roots always looked so bad, but the wire - years later - always looked so good.

The easy fact that some people ignore, is that we won't know whether a significant root is going to develop right down the middle of the opening, or whether it will develop right next to one of the wires. If a large root protrudes within an inch of the wire, it's going to get damaged in a matter of one to three years.