'TreeFlex' - New Ergonomically Designed Harness

[Tree Machine]

Cost is one of those things that folks throw up red flags, but one has to ask if this is an actual cost. Is it a cost? Or is it an investment. Investments yield returns.

If the saddle can keep you more comfortable, allows you to work longer, or more efficiently or effectively, prevents potential hip problems and fosters a higher level of skill and versatility while aloft, well, that pretty much spells investment to me.

And lets face it. We're guys. We buy the gear and once we start using it, we never think of the price again, just the joy of newness and improvement over the past.

 

[Pez]

Thats a refreshing angle on the issue of cost not often found on the forums TM - risk/cost/benefit analysis.

TreeFlex is certainly a good investment in terms of reducing risk of MSD injury and improving freedom of movement. No restriction to the range of motion of the hips or back, No riding up into the ribs or compression of internal organs - how refreshing to actually be able to breathe in a free hang : )

Wear it low like a pair of jeans (down on the hips), and the benefits will soon be felt limb walking, standing on spurs and flipline or Frogging into the tree.

3 sizes for a dialled in fit and lots of adjustability.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

And lets face it. We're guys. We buy the gear and once we start using it, we never think of the price again, just the joy of newness and improvement over the past.

Not really, I do do a mental cost benefit when looking at new gear. I am rarely the first to get stuff too (I leave that for Tom D. and Sean G.) I want to see how it works and how it will wear.

Fresco's "Saddle X" is a good example, many people thought it was cool till they wore it for a while, then found out it was not durable.

Paolo's hyperboli on lasting a year would not fit my needs. If the saddle costs a significant percentage of my net and is maybe a little better then what is out there.

I tried on a lot of saddles before getting a custom made Master II last year with some help from Charly Pottorff of Charly's International.

BTW if anyone is interested in getting a custom saddle, let me know and I will go into it further.

 

[Pez]

I think the sticking point comes for most climbers in truly understanding the risks of wearing a harness in certain ways. I was exactly the same. Its not something years of experience can teach because our bodies adapt to their situation, and a problem is not perceived until something becomes obviously painful/dysfunctional. Even then we just accept it and muddle on through.

This of course doesn't allow for a true risk/cost/benefit analysis - the risks of typical harness design or benfits of TFX aren't understood or known and the cost benefit of a certain saddle type is perceived greater than what it truly is.

We all need support from a harness, but in the right places. Too much support in the wrong areas upsets the body's bio-mechanics. Thats when MSDs become prevalent. Pain is routinely felt, so more support is looked for.

TFX is different - it allows the body to develop the support where it is needed, by wrapping comfortably in the lower risk areas (pelvis and upper hams), rather than rigid high back support and soft sit straps or board seats.

We have lots of scientific support, we just haven't got round to compiling the info in a presentation yet. But rest assured its coming : )

 

[Dadatwins]

I climb in a Sierra Moreno Ultralight Saddle with the integrated back support system. It honestly is the most comfortable saddle I have ever used, and is very very lightweight. Parts are interchangable and you can add or delete items in the belt very easily. The saddle is completely rebuildable! It is like sitting in an easy chair when out in the open, and the floating D's aid in a very comfortable work position. In addition, the back pad conforms to your natural contour over time as the saddle wears in. Anyone else out there use the Sierra Moreno Ultralight? I believe its made with some Bashlin parts. The Sierra Moreno Mercantile Company is the manufacturer.

Michael J. Platt
Platt & Company, Arborists

I use one and it is very comfortable. Don Blair puts a lifetime of real world tree experience into his products and it shows.

 

[Tree Machine]

our bodies adapt to their situation, and a problem is not perceived until something becomes obviously painful/dysfunctional. Even then we just accept it and muddle on through.

This was the point I was really stretching for.

As professional climbers (they say) we have a limited career span, not that we are more likely to die in accidents, but that our parts take a real beating. We don't even know what ergonoimics are and saddle-makers have simply done the best they know how.

For example, Weaver makes saddles for the Arboriculture industry, they also make shotbags and almost anything made of leather found in our industry comes from Weaver. Weaver is a great company, but they're not a tree industry company. We are just a sideline effort. They're business is done in the horse and ranching industry, worldwide, they are one of America's original leathermaking companies. A great company, but we as climbing Arborists realistically can't expect Weaver to create us a saddle that has our current and future bodily health depending on it. But priced right, they sell a lot of saddles to fellow brothers in our industry.

That is all.

 

[Tree Machine]

The difference in price, the actual amount of money over and above the cost of another choice.....what would that be? Can we do a hypothetical?

John Paul orders a custom saddle from Buckingham. Every saddle JP has ever had has been custom. This is because he is 7-foot, 8 and 440 pounds. The saddle costs $299.

The Treeflex is $449 and fully customizable. The difference in price is $150.


Are you gonna feel that??? I mean, with the thought of longevity in climbing, comfort, prevention of skeletal dysfunctia, overall prevention of pain in our second or third or fourth decade of climbing. Is comfort important to you now?

All that, for a mere $150 or $200 more. Here's a way to look at it, suppose you plan to spend the next 2,000 climbing hours in it. That extra $200 you dropped costs you a mere 10 cents an hour, or about a dollar a day if you do ten hours in the tree that day. Pretty cheap rent, you just need to pay it all up front.

If it changes the way you're able to climb, improves motion, extends versatility and overall ability while aloft, that, in our industry, means you are more efficient and likely are making better money through better productivity. That alone will obliterate the extra $200.

I sort of feel the Treeflex has all of this in mind in its design. Having spent so much time in design with so many talented professionals on your design team, it's quite likely you've come at it from all angles imaginable, all with intent of fostering our climbing careers, allowing us better technical abilities and keeping our bodies sound and intact well into our climbing years.

That's pretty big of you guys. I'd like to extend a personal Thanks.

 

[Tree Machine]

This cat has the impression he is climbing in comfort, but he really doesn't have a clue.

 

[rahtreelimbs]

BTW if anyone is interested in getting a custom saddle, let me know and I will go into it further.

I would like to know what is involved.............if you could take the time!!!

 

[Tree Machine]

Sure, why not?

 

[Tree Machine]

Derailing a thread, by permission. Ha ha ha ha

 

[beowulf343]

So TM, i'm seeing you say alot of nice things about the treeflex but are you actually climbing with it?

 

[RedlineIt]

If it changes the way you're able to climb, improves motion, extends versatility and overall ability while aloft, that, in our industry, means you are more efficient and likely are making better money through better productivity. That alone will obliterate the extra $200.

Very well said.

When the sticker shock of some of these "new age" saddles gets my eyes poppin', I think of it this way:

I spent $300 over the price of a echo top handle saw to get my 200T, because it works better, it's faster, easier to use control placements, and I HOPE it lasts longer.

I spent $200 over the price of a new set of steel Buckingham or Klien spurs to get my Alloy Gecko's, because they are lighter, easier on the body, far more comfortable, even though I'm fairly certain they will NOT last as long.

I spent $200 (easily) over the price of cheap workboots, because comfort for my feet is parmount to a good day at work. Bad feet leads straight to a bad back, and a bad back will ground you toute effing suite. I also KNOW they will last longer but the over-riding concern is that I will last longer.

I spent $200 on various ascenders when I need not have spent a single dime, I could footlock or bodythrust my way up each time, but the ascenders are easier, better ergos, and I'm convinced they will make ME last longer, on the day and over a career.

I spent $40 over the price of a good homeowner quality handsaw to get my Silky, because it is faster, less strokes per cut means it's easier on my elbows and wrists, and even though I'm CERTAIN it WILL last longer, I'll spend that extra $40 every single time.

I won't even touch the cost of tress cords, biners, pulleys versus going old school and tying in on the tail of my climb line, old school works, but I'm much more productive having dished out for the gewgaws and shiny bits.

Start adding it up, throw in another $couple hundred for professional pole pruners and saws over Home depot/Canadian Tire carp, $70 for Felcos (because they're simply better)...

...And I'm into better than a $Grands worth of more expensive equipment I've bought for no other reason than it all makes ME better and gives ME a chance to enjoy my work, come out of the tree sooner and with less pain, extend my career and enjoy my weekends more.

$400 to $500 for a saddle that can treat my pelvis and sacrum to some comfort and support starts to look not so eyepopping at all.



RedlineIt

 

[reachtreeservi]

Very well said.

When the sticker shock of some of these "new age" saddles gets my eyes poppin', I think of it this way:

I spent $300 over the price of a echo top handle saw to get my 200T, because it works better, it's faster, easier to use control placements, and I HOPE it lasts longer.

I spent $200 over the price of a new set of steel Buckingham or Klien spurs to get my Alloy Gecko's, because they are lighter, easier on the body, far more comfortable, even though I'm fairly certain they will NOT last as long.

I spent $200 (easily) over the price of cheap workboots, because comfort for my feet is parmount to a good day at work. Bad feet leads straight to a bad back, and a bad back will ground you toute effing suite. I also KNOW they will last longer but the over-riding concern is that I will last longer.

I spent $200 on various ascenders when I need not have spent a single dime, I could footlock or bodythrust my way up each time, but the ascenders are easier, better ergos, and I'm convinced they will make ME last longer, on the day and over a career.

I spent $40 over the price of a good homeowner quality handsaw to get my Silky, because it is faster, less strokes per cut means it's easier on my elbows and wrists, and even though I'm CERTAIN it WILL last longer, I'll spend that extra $40 every single time.

I won't even touch the cost of tress cords, biners, pulleys versus going old school and tying in on the tail of my climb line, old school works, but I'm much more productive having dished out for the gewgaws and shiny bits.

Start adding it up, throw in another $couple hundred for professional pole pruners and saws over Home depot/Canadian Tire carp, $70 for Felcos (because they're simply better)...

...And I'm into better than a $Grands worth of more expensive equipment I've bought for no other reason than it all makes ME better and gives ME a chance to enjoy my work, come out of the tree sooner and with less pain, extend my career and enjoy my weekends more.

$400 to $500 for a saddle that can treat my pelvis and sacrum to some comfort and support starts to look not so eyepopping at all.

RedlineIt

Right on Redline, After all , it's only money... that you can write off on your taxes anyway. Gear doesn't do the work, we do the work , But the right gear sure does make it alot more enjoyable... I budget a small percentage of each job for new gear,replacing old gear , etc . And every year I can do jobs that I couldn't do the year before because of this. At the end of the day, It's not what it cost, but what it does.

 

[Bermie]

So Paolo!
Congrats on the new harness and I wish you vast amounts of sales, it's been said before very well, equipment designed BY arborists FOR arborists has got to be the best.
With all the testing and ergonomics did you factor in the different shape of the female tree surgeon? Would the Treeflex give as much improvement in comfort and support for women as for the men?
If you need a test subject....opcorn: opcorn:

 

[Mitchell]

great post

I'm going to get my wife to read this one...

Very well said.

When the sticker shock of some of these "new age" saddles gets my eyes poppin', I think of it this way:

I spent $300 over the price of a echo top handle saw to get my 200T, because it works better, it's faster, easier to use control placements, and I HOPE it lasts longer.

I spent $200 over the price of a new set of steel Buckingham or Klien spurs to get my Alloy Gecko's, because they are lighter, easier on the body, far more comfortable, even though I'm fairly certain they will NOT last as long.

I spent $200 (easily) over the price of cheap workboots, because comfort for my feet is parmount to a good day at work. Bad feet leads straight to a bad back, and a bad back will ground you toute effing suite. I also KNOW they will last longer but the over-riding concern is that I will last longer.

I spent $200 on various ascenders when I need not have spent a single dime, I could footlock or bodythrust my way up each time, but the ascenders are easier, better ergos, and I'm convinced they will make ME last longer, on the day and over a career.

I spent $40 over the price of a good homeowner quality handsaw to get my Silky, because it is faster, less strokes per cut means it's easier on my elbows and wrists, and even though I'm CERTAIN it WILL last longer, I'll spend that extra $40 every single time.

I won't even touch the cost of tress cords, biners, pulleys versus going old school and tying in on the tail of my climb line, old school works, but I'm much more productive having dished out for the gewgaws and shiny bits.

Start adding it up, throw in another $couple hundred for professional pole pruners and saws over Home depot/Canadian Tire carp, $70 for Felcos (because they're simply better)...

...And I'm into better than a $Grands worth of more expensive equipment I've bought for no other reason than it all makes ME better and gives ME a chance to enjoy my work, come out of the tree sooner and with less pain, extend my career and enjoy my weekends more.

$400 to $500 for a saddle that can treat my pelvis and sacrum to some comfort and support starts to look not so eyepopping at all.



RedlineIt

 

[woodchux]

Looks like a nice saddle... Get the price down to around $200 and i'd buy one.

 

[Tree Machine]

So TM, i'm seeing you say alot of nice things about the treeflex but are you actually climbing with it?

No, I'm not climbing with it. What are the nice things I said about the saddle?
I didn't think I said anything about the saddle, just the work and dedication of the designers. Pez is the one who's said lots of nice things about the saddle. My point was cost/investment should be looked at from a more expanded point than just 'it costs a lot'.

RedlineIt nailed it over and over, you get what you pay for, quality costs money. I am aligned with RedlineIt, fully, like, we're twins. Nicely done on that post, Red.

 

[Tree Machine]

At the end of the day, It's not what it cost, but what it does.

Thank you.

 

[Pez]

If it changes the way you're able to climb, improves motion, extends versatility and overall ability while aloft, that, in our industry, means you are more efficient and likely are making better money through better productivity. That alone will obliterate the extra $200.

I sort of feel the Treeflex has all of this in mind in its design. Having spent so much time in design with so many talented professionals on your design team, it's quite likely you've come at it from all angles imaginable, all with intent of fostering our climbing careers, allowing us better technical abilities and keeping our bodies sound and intact well into our climbing years.

That's pretty big of you guys. I'd like to extend a personal Thanks.

That is the angle we are coming from TM, Redlineit, Reachtree. We knew what needed to be done, and had to find a way to make it a reality for my own physical benefit and the industry at large. That is our business - caring for trees and those that care for trees.

Thanks for the thanks TM - you obviously appreciate what is involved in trying to make such an innovation available at large - its refreshing to see that kind of appreciation. The design lends itself to all work at height.

The hardest part is getting climbers to understand that wearing a harness above the waist can lead to all kinds of problems. Keeping it low doesn't. Trouble is, so many big back pads have made for lazy core stability of climbers - they can't sit up straight without falling backwards when the armchair is taken away!

Bermie - good to hear from you! My wife is a co-designer and remedial therapist, and of course a woman : ) At the beginning of the process (5 years ago) I was keen to understand how we could make the harness fit men and women better. Women having shorter torsos and curved hips to varying degrees can make it difficult to stop a harness riding up to seriously restrict breathing. TFX flexes to fit the huge variety of all our shapes, male or female, and stay low. Thanks for the best wishes. This is a project where we all benefit : )