Trim these trees

[brentsawyer]

I don't get into this much but a customer of mine owns this building and asked last week for me to go and check it out and give him a price on trimming the trees. Here are two bradfords that were topped about 3 years ago and I'm guessing hes wrongfully thinking that I will go in there and do the same thing again. However, there is no way that I will top any tree especially downtown for anyone. However, they need a little work and I was thinking selectively pruning some of the branches and adding a growth regulator to them.

Agree??

 

[brentsawyer]

here is a maple that was topped at the same time, it is one of four but the largest. Also has power wire going through the center of it.

 

[NeTree]

I think you'd agree that that picture is a perfect example of why topping is bad.

Unfortunately, we sometimes have to follow someone who's ignorant enough to still do it. Poor branch attachment, profuse sucker growth, and a *ugly* appearance doesn't sink in.

Looks like you'll have some fun getting that back into proper chape & structure.

Start by selectively thinning out the suckers and picking a few to keep on as branches. I wouldn't try to whip this into shape all at once, wait a coupla years and take more off then. It may take three or four cycles to get this "thing" looking good and proper.

 

[SilverBlue]

Definitely a long term contract followed by removal a few years down the line cause I bet the customer will weigh the costs of corrective pruning against starting over.

 

[Lumberjack]

Originally posted by netree
...looking good and proper.

More like bearable and smoothed over hack job.

I hate topped trees, after I get ISA cert and my books squared away, I am going to the city council and talk about a ban on topping.

Carl

 

[treeman82]

Thin them out and apply Cambistat SC2. You might have a problem getting the Cambistat though even if you are a liscensed applicator. Up here they want you to go through a small demonstration session before they will sell the product to you.

 

[Guy Meilleur]

I agree the maple is a sad story and likely a no-win deal figuring how to sell restorative pruning.

The bradfords are another story; as noted on previous threads, severe and untraditional heading cuts are a viable mtc. method on this shortlived, splitting-prone species.

Different trees call for different strategies; one type of pruning does not fit every type of tree. I'd try selling a quick cheap clip on the bradfords and a complete care job on the maple. Hang birdhouses in the color of the nearby store, anything to help the owner see enough value for the needed return restoration prune.

 

[treeslayer]

sell him on a 2 year crown reduction/pruning plan for the maple.

convince him to remove the bradfords and replant with something with a decent caliper. those pear trees only need one good ice storm (or a good wind) and it's all over with. they were allowed to overgrow, don't perpetuate the problem. I deal with these trees all the time, there's an easy fix.
prune them from the neck up.
I would do the removal cheap, deep grind the stumps, and replant at minimal labor, with a decent profit recap.

You are the expert, don't let him dictate your assesment.
Tell him you're looking, out for his money next year, and the year after. this works for me at least half the time, just get the satisfaction from telling him straight up. do this in person, never on the phone or god forbid in writing without a face to face first.
you will enjoy it. and read his reaction, and learn from it. use that experience next time, and continue the process. you can climb better than him, now learn his game. property managers can be far worse than homeowners, until you become savvy.

remember, you are only as good as you sell yourself.

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by treeslayer
convince him to remove the bradfords and replant I deal with these trees all the time, there's an easy fix.
prune them from the neck up.

Tell him you're looking, out for his money next year, and the year after. remember, you are only as good as you sell yourself.

We've plowed this turf before, but here goes. Bradfords are prone to splitting, so reducing end weight tends to correct their big (only?) defect. They can stand indefinitely if reduced every few years. Yeah it's ugly in winter, yeah it may or may not be topping. It IS creating better bird habitat.

We can nitpick definitions of topping all day long but that means nothing to the tree or the tree owner. They are both interested in preservation; that owner has enjoyed flowers, fall color, etc for years and now you'll say "It's gonna break soon, pay me to replace it."? Not likely, really, is it?

If you can sell half the property owners on removing Bradfords in their prime, then you can sell refrigerators to eskimoes. Those folks make Lincoln squeal as they postpone mtc as long as they can. They will not spend to removegrindstumpreplant with decent caliper specimen if they can get em whacked every few years.

Rounding over Bradfords fits the species. It's not wrong to fit the tree to the situation. Anti-topping dogma makes no sense for some trees, like Callery pears.

 

[brentsawyer]

Wow, thanks. I am a little confused but I think I know what the two of you are bescially saying or suggesting. My guess is that it would be best to selectively prune and thin the pears out and basically try my best to keep them around for as long as possible which is what I think is the best idea. That is why I was thinking these would be the perfect trees for Cambistat it that it will keep the pears from getting too heavy and splitting the next heavy winds rip through. I checked w/ the manufacturers and they said that it prevents the trees from growing there normal rate for 2-3 years depending on the tree and that each year, 1/2-1/3 of normal growth will occur. Also curious if anyone has used growth regulators on something like this and what you opinion is using it here.

 

[treeman82]

Actually, if I remember correctly from the demonstration I went to... Cambistat, while slowing down shoot growth, will sometimes increase fruiting. Obviously, you cannot use the fruits for consumption in any form. The chemical stays around for something like 3 years.

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by treeman82
Obviously, you cannot use the fruits for consumption in any form.

You can use the fruit to feed birds. mockingbirds and others like it. Combined with the increased nesting habitat from heading back branches, the callery pears in that image can be a low-mtc asset with the program you describe.

I haven't used cambistat on pears but they seem like good candidates for its use.

 

[treeslayer]

Originally posted by Guy Meilleur
[We can nitpick definitions of topping all day long but that means nothing to the tree or the tree owner. They are both interested in preservation; that owner has enjoyed flowers, fall color, etc for years and now you'll say "It's gonna break soon, pay me to replace it."? Not likely, really, is it?

If you can sell half the property owners on removing Bradfords in their prime, then you can sell refrigerators to eskimoes.

C'mon Guy, get your head out of the sand. from a business perspective, those bradfords are not in their prime. Its how you present the solution. your quote " Its gonna break soon, pay me to replace it" is ridiculous. of course its not likely worded like that, I can sell refrgerators to eskimos,( they buy em all the time to keep milk from freezing.) and My suggestion was to convince the owner, not give up with the first sentance out of my mouth.

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by treeslayer
[QUOTE from a business perspective, those bradfords are not in their prime. Its how you present the solution.

ts I don't comprehend the perspective. What I do is to look at value the trees deliver to the owner, and look to increase/sustain that value at a cost that's worth the benefit to the owner.

Whacking and replanting would be so $$ compared to reducing and stunting, I think bret's got the right solution with maintaining them indefinitely. I don't look at trees first as a business opportunity, I think my clients would sense that and leave if I did.

We've all seen bradfords splinter apart, but that's no reason imo to see them all as removals without also considering all the other options. An arborist cares for trees first, the way I understand it.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I'm with guy again. I pollard and round off "wrong trees". I'll give it as an option to replacing them too. We are not there to tell them what to do, but what can be done.

Also one can thin and reduce a bradford without doing a hatrack.

I have a common mulberry at my Mom's church that I pollard every February. It looks hidious for a couple of months.

My big problem with topping is that the hackers do it to silver maple and willow, leaving 5-10 inch stubbs. This creats a higher risk of failure in the 5-10 year outlook. It is also poor service, because it causes the customer to be locked into a regular "trimming " cycle that will cost more then proper pruning in the long run.