True test of saw power is..

[weimedog]

Milling.

I would love to see a "milling" class on these saw & logging competitions! Grinding thru 12 ft of 30in diameter Hard Wood Maple! Takes my old war torn 797 McCulloch, Daughter, & I 20-25 minutes of cut time to drag that saw thru...with a break in the middle of about 5-8 minutes for a drink of water & a splash of gas for the saw! I would love to see one of the newer hot saws claw thru that...what would you guess the time would be? Five minutes, maybe ten? That would be a true test of power & durability instead of slicing thru soft wood logs. Also would be a test of endurance for the fellow behind the saw. Would pretty much put the bike saws where they belong...freak show as the only way they would last is if they had a full cooling system.

 

[Lawn Masters]

I'd like to see that myself. the ULTIMATE power/performance test. see who's got the most power of all. then crown him SAW KING.

 

[glens]

Bike saws are purely a somewhat interesting novelty in my book.&nbsp; I don't see much point in racing a saw that can't have any other useful purpose (even when running regular gas and with a muffler).&nbsp; Doing so is about like the local boys and girls driving some of their cars out to a little countryside &frac14;-mile action and someone showing up with a <s>Winston</s>Nextel Cup car or something on a trailer.

Glen

 

[Crofter]

Weimdog I think you want a test that favours the saw you presume to have the best characteristics. Like lets have a test of which is the better fruit; apples or oranges. Which is more powerfull a D7 or an equivalent weight aircraft. You are jousting at windmills. It just is different purposes and different characterisics favour one or the other discipline.

Milling is sustained activity and the saw is not hand supported. Excess cooling ability is king. A limbing or small wood saw is intermittent activity and light weight and high chain speed is king.

who is the fastest runner; the marathoner or the 100 yard dash sprinter?

 

[weimedog]

That was an interesting reply..jousting at wind mills? LOL what the heck was THAT!

Truth be known, being new to this hobbie; I would like to see an all around saw type competition. Kind of like the ISDE in the motorcycle world. Milling being the power & endurance segment. Maybe slicing thru those pansy ass soft logs the limbing part of the competition! LOL

I can put a 28inch bar on that old McCulloch and have a reasonable felling saw, a 20inch bar and chase the logs & firewood....pretty good all around saw for its age. I have blended a Stihl 36inch bar and will get the smaller ones to test my theory. Why not mix a little fun & hobbie with the cutting I have to do this year.

Chasing windmills? No. Just someone entering into the market place speaking his mind on what would be interesting to watch. I would buy based on what I saw...( pun intented)

 

[Al Smith]

Wind mills??

Well,know that I have stopped laughing,that's a good one. Equally good is"Pansy ass soft logs" I was very surprised,when I found out that all of the Stihl timbersport logs,were Ohio white pine.Now that I think about it,the axe men,and sawyers would not care for Sugar maple or red oak.

 

[Crofter]

Hey Don Quixote,

They do have triathlon competitions that make a go at appraising some idea of an all around athlete. Any such winner is of necessity a compromise though.

My son has an 066 Stihl that he does a lot of milling with. He puts a 16 inch bar on it and it sure will take the limbs off quick. It is not something you would choose for that job tho, especially if you weigh 150 lbs and want to do it all day. If you think milling ability is the ultimate test of a saws worth I wont argue with that; You will talk yourself out of it very quickly if you have to limb about 50 spruce trees with your 20 lb (wind) milling saw!

 

[Al Smith]

20 lbs,aye

Well Sancho Panza,you right about that but a little shy on weight.The 797,no fuel,no oil,no bar,no chain 21.5 lbs.My sp 125,23 lbs..They are heavy,even at my 230 lbs.

 

[weimedog]

Actually that climbing stuff sounds a bit more like Donny Boy...maybe your one of those guys who have to have the 32:1 saw oil to get right, a reading comprehension thing.

Maybe its an ADHD thing...subject scattered from misunderstanding old books to triathlons, to pulling airplanes with D7's, to running up and down tree with a 23lbs saw!

Me? Since its my land I'm cuttin on, I just bring the branches down to me, on terra firma and leave the hero work for the real Don Quixote's out there.

Different world out there where ever you are than here. I only have 25 acres or so of hemlock, the rest is all hardwood. Thats why there are different saws on the market place. You enjoy your classic books and I will enjoy my old saws in between a ride or two around my place on my old motorcycles..

PS:

It sounds as if your son might WIN one of those Triatha...whatevers if he can tote that big Stihl around as you described.

 

[Crofter]

Weimedog sorry that didnt go the way you intended or if I derailed your thread. I dont think a saw that excells at milling would make anywhere near a good all around saw for me.There is no question that milling is hard on a saw, but if it excells at that it is not going to be as good at other things I feel important in a saw. Like I said, I am not trying to talk you out of it.

Frank

 

[weimedog]

Neither happened. You just stated your opinion and I thank you for the thoughts on the subject. But back to that reading comprehension thing...the premis of the post was a test of saw power and endurance. And yes those are things I find interesting. My bet others do as well.

I am completely understand there is a variety of other tasks and situations...I spent much my youth earning money to support my racing habit by limbing, topping, and dropping pulp wood in the deep south. My Mac doesn't fit there.

But the question still remains....what better way to test the cutting speed, power, and endurance of a saw&man than milling?

(I did see a picture of a REAL saw...check out the Red Oak Al-Smith cut down with his big Homelite! Thats got to be one powerful saw to drag a chain around a bar like that!)

 

[glens]

<a href="http://www.madsens1.com/bretben.htm" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.madsens1.com/graphics/brettben.jpg"></a>

 

[Crofter]

Weimedog. How do you feel different saws would rank for cutting speed on milling if they had the same NET HORSEPOWER but one favoured low end torque and ran lower rpm in the wood and the other ran a higher rpm. The one of course could be pushed harder into the wood, but the other would drag more lineal feet of chain thru the kerf at a lighter loading.

Frank

 

[weimedog]

Glens, thats a hell of a picture....what is the story behind that event? Looks like thats a test of saw power & will power!

Crofter, I have no Idea. Thats why I ask the experts. My instinct is that width of power band is more important (HP being equal), and why not gear the saw with sprocket size to get optimal chain speed to match the meat of the power band? Then the saw with the widest power band (HP being equal) wins as it is more flexible for the guy running it as he can be imprecise and push the saw without having to worry as much about falling off the power curve. But thats applying motorcycle logic to chainsaws...I'm not a chainsaw guy and I hate hypothetical questions.

 

[glens]

The picture's a link; follow it.

Glen

 

[Crofter]

I know one thing with that angle of cut he will be pretty likely to plug his chain cover with french fries.
I think you are right for torque and gearing for a bike (and flexibilty),
On a saw you are pretty well limited in sprocket size without going to competition sprockts which have no life span and you also have to alter your bar tail profile to accept them and support the chain. Usually you can get the same net horspower out of a lighter motor if you opt for higher rpm. That weight saving is not much of a blessing if only for milling though. There is some value in having a certain minimum cutter lineal speed for efficiency of cutting. Like cutting with a scythe. I have not done a lot of milling myself and that with a 372 Husky which is pretty limited for milling. I have altered a number of chains for ripping for my son. His feeling is keep chains very sharp and dont press hard or you soon ruin the bar. The O66 is a pretty high revving saw compared to the old iron (magnesium) of some of Als saws. I dont know how they compare for milling. I remove all of one top plate, 2/3 of the next and about 1/4 of the third and repeat. all are filed 0 to 5 degrees with greater hook ( less of the file projecting above the top plate) It has somewhat the same effect as skiptooth for milling but is much smoother. Removing much of the top plate area makes for easier penetration with less wear on the rear of cutter tie strap apparently.

Frannk

 

[weimedog]

Thats lots of interesting data, thanks. The biggest problem we (my daughter & I) are having is as we approached towards the center of the tree, the width of cut relative to the width of the mill didn't allow us to "rock" the saw much so we had to cut almost perpendicular to the grain. Lots of dust. We ended up rolling the log 4 times and cutting to as close to the center as we could and then working a side at a time to get good slabs until we ended up with a nice heartwood post. Ended up with a bunch of slabs and a big post! What would be the ultimate chain configuration (money no object) for a relatively low RPM saw with a one tooth larger than stock sprokect. (It likes to cut in "midrange" ) Need to pick a chain for that worst case situation where you have no choise but to cut straight down the log....Right now the skip tooth chisle chain works great as long as you can rock the saw a little off the perpendicular then chips begin to flow and the saw moves down the log.

 

[Crofter]

Getting the chain to feed into the cut on big slabs is the problem. By rocking, you concentrate on a smaller area and force penetration. If you can get the tooth to sever the bite in larger pieces then you dont have to sever it as many times. The finer and more powdery the sawdust, the more it sucks up the oil too. Removing some of the top plate makes the chain easier to feed. Grinding or filing at close to 0 deg. top plate angle decreases kerf width compared to regular chain. Increasing hook seems to speed things up. Removing half or more of the tooth area would seem to be wasting the chain but it sure saves the bar. We want to set up an auxilliary oiler as the 066 is marginal in oil for milling with 32 inch or greater bar.

 

[Al Smith]

797,a thought

Just a thought.That big old 797,has the same drum,as a 125.It would therefore,be possible to put and 8 tooth on it,you may have,already.It should certainly have enough power to pull it, and it would gain you a bit of chain speed.My 2 125s and 105,all have 8 tooth rims,and all do well,with a 36"bar,altough,I normaly have a 24",on the 105.The big Homey,has an odd ball 6 spline rim drive,and an 8 tooth,and will pull that Paul Bunyan,man killer bar,with that system.The differance,between the Mac's,and the Homey,is the fact that the Homey has a huge 6 segment clutch,with 3/4"wide shoes,whereas the Mac,is a bit smaller,and will slip,and get hotter that a firecracker on that long bar.It proba bley would handle it with a 7 tooth.Although I've never seen one,I have heard that both the 797,and cp/sp 125,will handle a 72"bar.The only one of my Macs,I ever had a tach on,was the 650,and it was about 9000 rpm.With that in mind,I would assume that the 797,would be in that area,but,may not be.Look around,you may be able to locate a rim drive ,if you haven't already,then you could just change the rim to suit the conditions.