sunfish
Fish Head
We had a Vermont Casting for 8-9 years and like it fine when it worked right, but had a lot of problems! Jotul is much better!!!
Trying to pick out a new stove
- Thread starter Philbo
- Start date
Help Support Arborist Forum:
apn73
ArboristSite Operative
Not trying to pick a fight here, what were you trying to ram the wood into the stove with a sledge hammer? I've had soap stone stove for six years now and have had no durability issues with it what so ever, and we have not been gentle with that stove. The lightest heating season we've had over that time has been 5.5 cords and usually we are burning in the 6 to 6.5 cord range, so we've put the wood to it (literally) and have had no issues, other than a little metal warpage in the fire box at the end of this last season.
Swamp Yankee
Addicted to ArboristSite
From the hearsay dept.
First, I heat with a Jotul F 118. It lives in an unfinished basement that it heats quite nicely. The big advantage is the 1000 sq ft upstairs stays comfortable, upper 60's lower 70's without the huge temperature gradient almost always present when the stove is in one room in the living area. Other huge advantage, wood heat is dirty, no getting around it, and having the stove out of the main living area keeps the house cleaner with less dust and leftover bark and ashes. My wife loves having warm floors. Although it takes a week of burning, once all the concrete in the basement is warm, it acts as a giant heat sink meaning even when you have to let the stove go down, the warm concrete keeps the house temperature very stable for a long period. Some additional food for thought when thinking about placement.
As to stove manufacturers. I sell wood, 50 cord a year for 30 something years and have had more than a few conversations with my customers about stoves. I can state without reservation that I have never had anyone that has a Jotul stove say anything bad about it, (other than the initial price) period. Vermont Castings seems to be on the other end of the spectrum, I hear a lot of people that have them ask me if I know anyone looking for a wood stove cheap . Another batch of customers have the "inexpensive" steel stoves sold at several box stores. They do ok, from what I hear, but I also bring them more wood than those with the higher quality stoves. In short, there's a payback associated with a well made more costly stove especially if you buy wood, in that they use less so over the course of 4 or 5 years you'll get the higher initial cash outlay back, and have a stove that costs less to operate in the long run.
One last thought and then I'll go away. Get a stove with at least an 18 inch, preferably longer firebox. Trying to jam a 16-1/2 inch piece into a 16 inch box in the middle of the night is a pain. That's one of the things I love most about my Jotul F118, is the 25 inch firebox. I know if the piece fit on my splitter, it will fit in the stove no problem.
Take Care
First, I heat with a Jotul F 118. It lives in an unfinished basement that it heats quite nicely. The big advantage is the 1000 sq ft upstairs stays comfortable, upper 60's lower 70's without the huge temperature gradient almost always present when the stove is in one room in the living area. Other huge advantage, wood heat is dirty, no getting around it, and having the stove out of the main living area keeps the house cleaner with less dust and leftover bark and ashes. My wife loves having warm floors. Although it takes a week of burning, once all the concrete in the basement is warm, it acts as a giant heat sink meaning even when you have to let the stove go down, the warm concrete keeps the house temperature very stable for a long period. Some additional food for thought when thinking about placement.
As to stove manufacturers. I sell wood, 50 cord a year for 30 something years and have had more than a few conversations with my customers about stoves. I can state without reservation that I have never had anyone that has a Jotul stove say anything bad about it, (other than the initial price) period. Vermont Castings seems to be on the other end of the spectrum, I hear a lot of people that have them ask me if I know anyone looking for a wood stove cheap . Another batch of customers have the "inexpensive" steel stoves sold at several box stores. They do ok, from what I hear, but I also bring them more wood than those with the higher quality stoves. In short, there's a payback associated with a well made more costly stove especially if you buy wood, in that they use less so over the course of 4 or 5 years you'll get the higher initial cash outlay back, and have a stove that costs less to operate in the long run.
One last thought and then I'll go away. Get a stove with at least an 18 inch, preferably longer firebox. Trying to jam a 16-1/2 inch piece into a 16 inch box in the middle of the night is a pain. That's one of the things I love most about my Jotul F118, is the 25 inch firebox. I know if the piece fit on my splitter, it will fit in the stove no problem.
Take Care
Mass. Wine Guy
ArboristSite Operative
Thanks, Swamp. A lot of good advice. And a great collection of chainsaws. One reason I bought a Jotul F400 Castine was because it has a 20 inch wide firebox. I knew the wood I'd use was going to be around 16 to 18 inches and I wanted some wiggle room.
apn73
ArboristSite Operative
Some good info there Swamp, especially the part about the size of the fire box. Question, isn't the ground around the foundation always cold? My point is that you're always going to be dumping btu's out through basement walls and floor, which means that you're going to waste wood doing it. I know a lot of people who put wood stoves in the basement, it's a free country and far be it from me to tell anybody that they can't put their stove in their basement. We all have our reasons for doing certain things, but I'm not so sure that the foudation of your house as masonry heater is completely accurate.
My old ponderosa heater has soap stone blocks around 6"x4"x2" and they are all slowly breaking. It may be caused by the way I just toss wood in the heater. I don't baby the heater so although no hammer is involved I am sure that it is my fault.
apn73
ArboristSite Operative
I take it that the soap stone tiles also make up the inner wall of the the fire box on your stove? If that's the case, then that would explain it. The Hearthstone has conventional fire brick construction for the fire box, although there are a couple of soap stone tiles in the bottom of the box. The outer tiles of the Hearthstone are 1.25" thick and are pretty much decoration, they're not doing a whole lot. That part of the reason why I think at times we should have bought a Jotul instead. The Hearthstone owner's manual does say that the soap will develop small, hairline cracks over time, so they don't hide that they will crack.
Swamp Yankee
Addicted to ArboristSite
Nope.
Not going to get into the full thermodynamics of the situation,including heat capacities and thermal transfer rates, but masonry is a suburb insulator and heat sink. Once warm masonry / concrete, can store huge amounts of btus simply due to the mass and radiates, conducts and convects the heat back into the basement at a very slow steady rate when stove is down. It does take a large amount of btus to get that mass warm however, so in my case it may take a few days for the basement to get the entire chill out.
The concrete, being below ground level doesn't see the same outside temp as the rest of the house. The sub surface dirt a couple feet down is probably in the 50 degree range with no wind, while the outside air may be 0 degrees or less with a 20 mph wind blowing. Wanna guess where the biggest heat loss is going occur? Not to mention doors and windows. (think geothermal heating systems)
Same principle as cities with large concrete buildings being 4 to as many 10 degrees hotter than the surrounding countryside on a bright sunny day as they absorb all that energy and store it. Put your hand on the bricks around a fireplace 2 hours after the fire has gone out and they're still warm but the mantle and fireplace glass are room temperature. Want consistent oven temperature for roasting or baking, throw a pizza stone in, the extra mass absorbs heat and stabilizes the oven temp.
One other advantage of a stove in the basement, heat rises, meaning more of the house is in the warm air's path to absorb it as it attempts to escape out the roof.
Take Care
Not going to get into the full thermodynamics of the situation,including heat capacities and thermal transfer rates, but masonry is a suburb insulator and heat sink. Once warm masonry / concrete, can store huge amounts of btus simply due to the mass and radiates, conducts and convects the heat back into the basement at a very slow steady rate when stove is down. It does take a large amount of btus to get that mass warm however, so in my case it may take a few days for the basement to get the entire chill out.
The concrete, being below ground level doesn't see the same outside temp as the rest of the house. The sub surface dirt a couple feet down is probably in the 50 degree range with no wind, while the outside air may be 0 degrees or less with a 20 mph wind blowing. Wanna guess where the biggest heat loss is going occur? Not to mention doors and windows. (think geothermal heating systems)
Same principle as cities with large concrete buildings being 4 to as many 10 degrees hotter than the surrounding countryside on a bright sunny day as they absorb all that energy and store it. Put your hand on the bricks around a fireplace 2 hours after the fire has gone out and they're still warm but the mantle and fireplace glass are room temperature. Want consistent oven temperature for roasting or baking, throw a pizza stone in, the extra mass absorbs heat and stabilizes the oven temp.
One other advantage of a stove in the basement, heat rises, meaning more of the house is in the warm air's path to absorb it as it attempts to escape out the roof.
Take Care
Some productive chatter going on in this thread!
I really like most of what the Woodstock Fireview has to offer, except the 16" split recommendation and what looks like a pretty small loading door on the side.
I think I should really consider Hearthstone, as I think soapstone will be great for our little house and our kids (a toddler now, and likely another one on the way very soon.) The heritage seems about the right size and has 2 nice sized loading doors and can take a 21" split. Looks much better in my eyes also, but that's pretty minor to me.
I don't want to have to be cracking a window all the time because we're getting heated out of the house and then feel chilled 8 hours later because the stove has cooled off quickly. Always something I battled operating cast iron and steel stoves (cheap ones.)
My neighbor has a Hearthstone stove, I think, so I'm gonna check it out sometime soon and get a feel for it.
Keep the discussion going!
I really like most of what the Woodstock Fireview has to offer, except the 16" split recommendation and what looks like a pretty small loading door on the side.
I think I should really consider Hearthstone, as I think soapstone will be great for our little house and our kids (a toddler now, and likely another one on the way very soon.) The heritage seems about the right size and has 2 nice sized loading doors and can take a 21" split. Looks much better in my eyes also, but that's pretty minor to me.
I don't want to have to be cracking a window all the time because we're getting heated out of the house and then feel chilled 8 hours later because the stove has cooled off quickly. Always something I battled operating cast iron and steel stoves (cheap ones.)
My neighbor has a Hearthstone stove, I think, so I'm gonna check it out sometime soon and get a feel for it.
Keep the discussion going!
Similar threads
