Two-Cycle Engine Oil Voodoo

[Log Hogger]

Fall: My dad's 066 burns up a jug and piston. He's just getting over major surgery so I figured maybe after a few oxycodones he forgot to put oil in the mix. But I checked all the gas containers at his place they're mixed and similar in hue to a properly mixed sample of gas I prepared.

This week: I've got the saw back up and running - but I don't want anyone using it until I know why it burned itself up. So far I've made the following maintenance changes:

1. 93 octane gas. My dad was using 87 octane, and the manual of course calls for 89. He doesn't read manuals, but that's another topic for another day.

2. Muff mod. I opened that muff up real nice - I struck a good balance so it's not too loud. My father's got neighbors so he can't be running it at full volume.

3. Two-cycle oil. Here's where I'm stumped. I read on some forums that using two-stroke oil rated at TCW-3/API TC (Citgo Supergard Marine Plus, for example) is sure to destroy a chain saw. Something about marine two-cycle oil not being formulated to withstand the higher temperatures of a chain saw. Except it says right on the bottle that it's good for chain saws, and both the SAE and API sites claim that TCW-3 or TC rated oil is good for chain saws.

Of course Stihl says, "use our own oil at 50:1, or a competitors at 25:1". To me such a claim sounds like thinly veiled marketing tripe with a twist of teutonic arrogance. Does Stihl really have a secret plant, buried under hundreds of feet of rock, churning out vastly superior two-cycle oil? How do they keep their formula secret? How do they color-match those oil bottles to my Stihl chain saw's plastic trim, all in secret?

My cynical guess is that Stihl buys the cheapest two-cycle oil on the market at any given time, bottles it up in snazzy orange bottles, and gives it to Stihl users over a barrel. Perhaps some wiser members here know the truth: what is the right two-cycle engine oil to use for a Stihl 066 (heavy duty milling), and is there really a difference between the goop in the orange bottles and the goop in the Auto Zone bottles?

Any other maintenance suggestions are greatly appreciated.

 

[Jonsered Rep]

yes and no

oil like anything else is a pay for what you get product. oil is not pumped out of the earth and into bottles every company has there own standards for refineing the oil in my experience saw manufactures generally go for a higher quality oil bar or mix type so that they can claim the superior product not to say that there isn't another name that puts out a decent oil not attached to a chainsaw manufacturer but stay away from the bargain mix and find a high grade at a reasonable price

 

[lovetheoutdoors]

i agree better oil more money.....i try to stay with husqvarna,stihl, and echo lubricants.....seems to work for me. :jester:

 

[BIG JAKE]

Get what you pay for

I don't put much stock in TCW-3 or other standards. They are minimum standards. Doesn't mean it makes Walmart TCW-3 oil equivalent to say Mobil 1. What I'm saying is walmart supertech 2-stroke for example will never get run in any of my saws. It might be fine if you run it rich but a top end for my 066 is too much money to burn to save a few bucks on oil. Also Stihl and husky have been making saws a lot of years. If their saws don't hold up word gets out and the guys with problems won't buy from them again. So it wouldn't make sense for them to bottle cheap oil to make an extra buck. The real money is in the saws they sell. They know what works with research and experience. So do NASCAR drivers, drag racers, pro motocross riders, pro loggers etc. I doubt you'll find many running Walmart oil if any. Time and reliability is money. Research and testing takes time and money. When I've doubted that it cost me money and I learned the hard, expensive way. I used to run regular motor oil in the crankcase of my dirt bikes. After destroying a few transmissions I figured out that "the shear forces of the gears meshing thus breaking conventional oil down" line of BS I'd heard was actually true. So I went to better lubricants designed for that purpose and haven't blown one since. But that's personal experience. I want to save a buck like anyone else. I'm just a little wiser on how I go about that now. Just my opinion but there is a difference in oils and the difference is in the additives etc.

 

[bwalker]

Its not voodoo...

Dont use tcw3 outboard oils in air cooled power equipment...I dont care what the label on the bottle says.
With that said I doubt oil was your problem. Check for air leaks, and proper carb setting as they are the likely culprit.
FWIW Citgo makes a excellant air cooled oil that is reasonobly priced. Cotgo is also the OEM for Yamaha, Redmax, Echo, and Lawnboy oils to mention a few.

 

[computeruser]

Dont use tcw3 outboard oils in air cooled power equipment...I dont care what the label on the bottle says.
With that said I doubt oil was your problem. Check for air leaks, and proper carb setting as they are the likely culprit.
FWIW Citgo makes a excellant air cooled oil that is reasonobly priced. Cotgo is also the OEM for Yamaha, Redmax, Echo, and Lawnboy oils to mention a few.

+1

In general, I fail to see the point in buying "cheap" two-stroke oil. Honestly, how much does the oil really cost per tank? Penny wise, pound foolish, right?

 

[havvey]

penny wise

ditto on that:yoyo:

 

[havvey]

oil problems

i agree with what is said however i run mine slightly rich 2. outboard ol is a no no they are sometimes 100:1 and liquid cooled. 3. many years ago when mac was ruling the roost there was a batch of oil (don't know the brand) that did not mix it just jelled up lots of saws were ruined. (raw gas) 4. some oil is ment for injection we had some that screwed up alot of carbs in saws and sleds i don't want to bash the brand. 5. stay with one oil and mix don't jump around buy a years worth at once.:yoyo:

 

[Ancient One]

Any Sport Has a Price

A price to do it correctly, that is.

Good oil is cheap, considering the amount we use in a saw!!!!!

And I mix a little heavier than the specs. 50:1 In My Aged Opinion is just too light for big saws pulling long bars in big timber.

Follow this rule and never look back:

"Buy the best and cry once."

Which also means:

"Buy cheap and continue to cry when you replace the cheap items, or engage in repairing the damaged caused from buying cheap supplies."


More advice: Grease that sprocket tip each time you refuel, and check/adjust the chain tension. Makes things last a long time. If you do not have a hand pump type grease gun with the needle tip, then buy one. (Bailey's has them for $8, page 31 in the 2006 catalog) I use moly wheel bearing grease. A tip, drill/tap the head of the gun for a 1/4-28 zerk fitting, then you can refill it by using your large automotive grease gun.

And, if you do not use a rim/drum, then buy a setup for your saw. Open spur type sprockets just wear out chain and eat horsepower.

 

[bwalker]

In regards to price. Price isnt always a indicator of quality. Citgo aircooled and Echo powerblend are identical with the exception of dye and fuel stabil. Guess which one costs the most? Mobil Mx2t is cheaper than OEM oils as well and is light years ahead froma quality/performance standpoint.

 

[Farley9n]

What's the feeling on a full synthetic? The saw shops I deal with around here seem to be against it. the best they sell are the saw branded blends. I tend to think it's the best way to go but then have had little experience to this point with it......??????

 

[Log Hogger]

Thanks for the responses

Looks like I'll be using Stihl oil from now on - I just needed a little convincing from people who know saws.

As for what burned out that jug n' piston, I'm wondering if it were a combination of factors. Less than adequate oil, low octane gas, and a carb set too lean. The chain wasn't getting properly oiled, either - he had the oiler set to "low" on a logosol - so that would have strained the saw even more.

I've checked for air leaks in the intake snorkel, but it looks tip-top.

I should add that this saw has not seen much use. He's used it maybe a few months tops since he bought it. The logosol is out there, and then there are piles and piles of rotten logs everywhere. Something had to have gone wrong for this saw to burn out so soon.

 

[sawn_penn]

If you are running a new saw, USE WHAT THE MANUFACTURER/DEALER RECOMMENDS.

Stihl oil from my dealer is cheaper than crud no-name oil from Bunnings (our version of Home Depot.)

The cost of the oil is about 1/7th the cost of the fuel. You can't save serious money on cheap oil. Expensive oil just isn't expensive enough!

Say I run mystery brand oil and my new saw blows up. I could end up in an argument about whether I operated the saw correctly. It's just not worth the trouble.

From a dealer's point of view, there are good oils and bad oils out there. They could keep a list of good and bad oils, and try and keep their customers informed. If a previously good brand went bad, they would write to all their customers and tell them? Nope. Too hard. Just tell em to use Stihl/Husky/Echo oil only.

( More importantly from a dealer's point of view, if you use their oil then you need to set foot in their shop from time to time... Gee that's a nice looking saw you've got on the wall there.... Maybe I'd better get a couple of loops of chain.... I'd probably sell the oil at near cost, in smallish bottles, and only have a few on the shelf (but heaps out the back) )
If you have problems

 

[sawn_penn]

...After blowing a few trannies...

I'm glad I didn't take that out of context.

 

[Lakeside53]

Looks like I'll be using Stihl oil from now on - I just needed a little convincing from people who know saws.

.

So here a little twist for you. Stihl sells 3 types of mix oil - the standard non-synthetic, the "low smoke" blended synthetic, and a new version called "ultra" - full synthetic...

 

[bwalker]

What's the feeling on a full synthetic?

Some are OK, some are not.
Lakeside, tell us a little more about this ultra.
FWIW Husky's new XP oil(grey bottle) is pretty darn good stuff. I have been using it for some time with excellant results.

 

[Lakeside53]

Some are OK, some are not.
Lakeside, tell us a little more about this ultra.
FWIW Husky's new XP oil(grey bottle) is pretty darn good stuff. I have been using it for some time with excellant results.

Don't know much about it. Heard about it in Febraury as available from April 1st, and on the last oil order I put in, it was there.

 

[clearance]

What about Amsoil? I keep hearing about it, I always use Husky mix myself.

 

[bwalker]

What about Amsoil?

Works great for keeping dust down on gravel roads....

 

[sawn_penn]

What about Amsoil? I keep hearing about it, I always use Husky mix myself.

Amsoil Saber looks OK, but I'm not sure I'd use it at 100:1 until I'd heard about a lot of other use. Also, as I mentioned in an earlier post, for a saw under warranty I'd stick to the recommended oil to avoid an argument in the event of a failure.

If someone says "Our logging company has used Saber exclusively for 3 years at 100:1, and it seems fine" I'd be a lot happier about 100:1.