New bar smoking a lot--because of kinked chain, clogged oil hole, or too much 2-stroke?

[irhunter]

I do clean the bar groove but someone else pointed out the place that sharpens my sawchains might not

If a loop is a sawchain I have two and take them to a hardware store to get done but maybe they don't do the rakers (also I've been cutting big pieces of black walnut which might be a little big for my 18" saw; I'm in southern Pennsylvania).

OK,

I think it's great you're posting questions here.

I have the feeling, you might also be well-served by watching some basic-maintenance videos. Cleaning the saw, sharpening the chain, buying the correct chain...stuff like that.

As you probably know, The Youtube is full of know-nothing knuckleheads teaching chainsaw use, how to weld, how to paint a car, and just about everything else.

The good news: the corporate offices of Stihl and Husky each make a series of excellent videos. Professionally produced...No Knuckleheads.

Maybe Echo does, too.

Anyway, I suggest:



Roy

PS:

1. Your saw is probably fine cutting that walnut...at least whenever the chain is sharp.
2. You may be better served by buying a hand-filing kit.

https://www.amazon.com/Oregon-Chain...-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1

 

[Sidecarflip]

I do clean the bar groove but someone else pointed out the place that sharpens my sawchains might not

If a loop is a sawchain I have two and take them to a hardware store to get done but maybe they don't do the rakers (also I've been cutting big pieces of black walnut which might be a little big for my 18" saw; I'm in southern Pennsylvania).

I'm in SE Michigan btw so about the same climate and trees as well. I quit having any outside service sharpen my loops long ago. Reason being that most service people grind way too much off any loop which shortens their useful life and they rarely drop the rakers and probably don't know how or even own a raker setting gage and don't want to take the time anyway.

I sharpen hundreds of chains of all pitches except of course square ground which has to be hand filed anyway. Every chain I grind (I have 2 chain grinders, one set up to grind the cutters and the other just for rakers). Each loop first gets a a heated bath of lye and water in the big ultrasonic cleaner to remove and all pitch from them and then gets ground and the rakers checked and dropped if necessary. I drop and profile them at .020 or at .030 whatever my arborist customers want. After sharpening they get a soak in motor oil for a day and then drained and packed in groups of 10 depending on loop length and picked up or sent via USPS to my customers in zip lock plastic bags wrapped on heavy paper. I sharpen chipper knives as well, same deal.

I never remove excess cutter material, only enough to dress the worst cutter and match the rest to that one.

I run local arborists as well as the big tree companies. I usually get chipper knives by the crate load and saw loops by the dozens. Nice thing about my knife grinding setup is I can adjust the angle if the knives to what my customers want so when chipping mostly hardwood the knife angle stays at the factory angle but guys that chip softwood mostly, I adjust the knife angle to be more agressive.

Presently I have around 50 loops in the Queue to get sharpened.

It's a value added thing for me as I own and operate a short run machine and fab shop with 2 full time employees. Keeps me busy and outta their hair. They know what they are doing, both Journeyman tool and die makers. I quote the jobs and leave the rest to them. I tend to do all the heavy fabrication and welding myself. Just got done with a large Brush Bandit chipper that I had to remove the chipper wheel on and build up the worn spots and have it rebalanced. It was a big diesel powered one on it's own semi trailer. and I had to modify the output chute as well. I cut the chute just above the chipper wheel and installed a clean out door in it.

I usually charge 50 cents per running inch on loops which is cheap and 75 cents per running inch on chipper knives which is also cheap but it's just a value added thing for me.

For my out of town customers, shipping is 100% on you coming and going and I almost always send them USPS priority mail or in the case of chipper knives if a lot, Fed Ex or commercial carrier. Chopper knives get real heavy, real fast.

I don't advertise anywhere, it's all word of mouth and my customers are all repeat customers as a rule.

We make our income here by farming and the machine shop. Everything is just fun....lol

 

[Ted Jenkins]

On average it takes me fifteen minutes to clamp up bar and sharpen chain in the field on a 24" bar. There have been tons of threads to debate hand filing VS. using a machine to grind teeth. A chain saw dealer or hardware store is not going to worry about rakers angles and such. Once you have sharpened about twenty chains you will wonder why you had not been doing a hand filing much longer. However most people take some time to practice to get it to a functional state. So patience is required. When chain is reasonably sharp and bar checked for being true the other issues of oiling and such can be evaluated. Thanks

 

[Sidecarflip]

OK,

I think it's great you're posting questions here.

I have the feeling, you might also be well-served by watching some basic-maintenance videos. Cleaning the saw, sharpening the chain, buying the correct chain...stuff like that.

As you probably know, The Youtube is full of know-nothing knuckleheads teaching chainsaw use, how to weld, how to paint a car, and just about everything else.

The good news: the corporate offices of Stihl and Husky each make a series of excellent videos. Professionally produced...No Knuckleheads.

Maybe Echo does, too.

Anyway, I suggest:



Roy

PS:

1. Your saw is probably fine cutting that walnut...at least whenever the chain is sharp.
2. You may be better served by buying a hand-filing kit.

https://www.amazon.com/Oregon-Chainsaw-Field-Sharpening-Kit/dp/B084XV4TGX/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=2I1EICMDRKK8&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.bZKKi_RkVGzZpKzto_dRr7tBvXXQUQq5BC50pWzRMlit-srY8yQnFbyMxTPkl3G3qqIdftdmH5R_yva4dQqVXfja_M-2M0y0V1hPiiriQOc2ceTOJ7nXtQwplQO2r2yzd_EGB__KfOKekDlHBmFoBLaqfM0A7jZgTcx-XDGJTJICGcg4CBaXJk6Xl_vUmAUyxh9giBbJPH5fAGa3p2KUFlTpCkmL9d5CDbESXATxf8I.u-Q8lALuY42BpPpqtjSpnAnol_6fmtoeHQzTnUxJ0sw&dib_tag=se&keywords=oregon+universal+chainsaw+sharpening+kit&qid=1711651623&sprefix=oregon+universal+chainsaw+sharpening+kit,aps,157&sr=8-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1

I worry about people who do video's like that wearing gloves for everything, only need to be worn when fooling with the chain and different brands have different controls and contrary to his comments about the bars, they should never be flat on the bottom or the top, they always have a rock to them. If they are flat, they are done and need to be replaced. Other than that it's a pretty good video.

I quit hand filing years ago btw and I always carry a spare sharp loop with me when cutting. If the loops starts building pitch on the top of the tooth, it's time to change it out. I have at least 3 loops for every saw as a rule. 2 dressed and one on the saw.

 

[Tony Mayhew]

I bet you are not getting everything out of the bar groove if you're actually cleaning it out! I get ahold of bars on chainsaws that I buy, that I am positive that nobody ever scraped the crap out of it like it needs to be done! And that stuff gets packed in the bottom of the groove so hard that I have to get medieval with it to get it to break loose! A hack saw blade works pretty well if you run it through it a couple of times like you really mean it! And once you get it all cleaned out, make a habit of pulling the bar off the saw every two tanks of fuel and flip it 180 degrees and run your hack saw blade through the groove in the bar so it doesn't build up until you have an issue with it. Think about it like this, that is how the bar oil gets distributed to all the links in the chain is that groove in the bar! So if I were to see smoke coming from the bar and chain areas that would be the first place I would take a peek at and eliminate that as a culprit of your smoke! I think you will find that to be the problem nine times out of ten for an oiling issue.

 

[Papa Georgio]

My bars always seem to smoke a lot, I use a grease gun for the nose but I think some of my chains may be *slightly* kinked and/or I put too much 2-stroke into the mix (but why does the whole bar smoke?) Also my saw doesn't use up oil as fast as it used to so I'm wondering if the little hole is slightly clogged (I try to clean it but it's hard to get to). Short videos and a picture attached, when I'm attached cutting (and need two hands on the saw and can't film) it's quite a bit smokier. Thanks

I had my bar oil filter clog up once. I honestly didn’t know if it had one, but I looked and it sure did. Dump the bar oil out, bend a coat hanger or something similar, gently fish the line and filter out. Don’t pull it loose from the inside of the tank. I could see mine was dirty. I just wiped it off and fixed the problem. Don’t know if this pertains to your situation, but if other things don’t fix it this isn’t a hard task.

 

[Sidecarflip]

I bet you are not getting everything out of the bar groove if you're actually cleaning it out! I get ahold of bars on chainsaws that I buy, that I am positive that nobody ever scraped the crap out of it like it needs to be done! And that stuff gets packed in the bottom of the groove so hard that I have to get medieval with it to get it to break loose! A hack saw blade works pretty well if you run it through it a couple of times like you really mean it! And once you get it all cleaned out, make a habit of pulling the bar off the saw every two tanks of fuel and flip it 180 degrees and run your hack saw blade through the groove in the bar so it doesn't build up until you have an issue with it. Think about it like this, that is how the bar oil gets distributed to all the links in the chain is that groove in the bar! So if I were to see smoke coming from the bar and chain areas that would be the first place I would take a peek at and eliminate that as a culprit of your smoke! I think you will find that to be the problem nine times out of ten for an oiling issue.

I have to disagree with your instruction, You only need to flip the bar every time you install a sharpened loop and far as cleaning the groove and oiler holes, when you change the loop, clean it and I use an expired credit card to clean mine and I clean out the oiler holes at the same time as well. After I clean it and renew the loop (if I'm in the shop, I'll take my air blow gun and run the length of the bar to make sure all crusted in swarf is removed. If the roller nose has a grease port (all my Echo's do as well as my old 028 with the Carleton bar, I'll grease the roller nose with a grease gun with a needle tip installed or with a specifically designed bar nose greaser which are available at any saw shop or online at Fleabay or Amazonian. When the bar is off, clean the oiler holes out as well.

I prefer a greaseable roller nose but that is a subject for another time and always use bar oil, not drain oil or used any oil. Bar oil is tacky and won't fling off as the chain loop rotates. I get mine at Menards or Lowes when on sale, cheaper than the local saw shop and lots cheaper than a Stihl dealer by a long shot.

Side note, the Oregon depth gauge tool will have a tapered end that is ideal for cleaning the groove out with,

Finally, what the sawyer in the video stated about the bar being flat is also incorrect. That bar has to have a rock to it across the entire length from just behind the roller nose to the oiler holes. Flat don't work, the bar is shot the channel must be of a consistent width and retain the drive tangs somewhat loose but not too loose. The coin track works quite well actually and no burrs on the outside edges of ANY bar, that is very indicative of an overheated bar as well as the powder coated paint flaking away from the bar edges along the chain run which can also be indicative of running the loop too tight and that also robs engine power, wears the drive sprocket out quickly as well. ALL drive sprockets whether clutch drum mounted or spindle mounted have maximum wear marks stamped into the sprocket face. When the wear nark is realized, it's time to replace them. A worn drive sprocket will not engage the drive tangs on the loop properly and the decreasing radius of the sprocket causes the drive tangs of any loop to bind and reduces power to the loop, appreciably. I always have a couple in the shop on the shelf at all times anyway. Save a trip to the saw shop or buying online and waiting for them.

What I do if I flip the bar in the shop is, I take my blow gun and blow out everything on the powerhead including the cylinder cooling fins and drive side as well as the air filter and from the inside out on that and with reduced air pressure, but than I'm somewhat anal about clean saws and my ag tractors as well and even the engines and underbodies on my vehicles. as all my hay implements as well.

Just how I roll and have for 50 years.

Different folks approach it in different ways. I have my regimen, it works and I'm good with it. Been using chainsaws since they had 4 stroke engines on them and in retrospect, I wish I had kept some of them as the antiques are worth some jack today. I didn't however, stupid me.

 

[Sidecarflip]

I had my bar oil filter clog up once. I honestly didn’t know if it had one, but I looked and it sure did. Dump the bar oil out, bend a coat hanger or something similar, gently fish the line and filter out. Don’t pull it loose from the inside of the tank. I could see mine was dirty. I just wiped it off and fixed the problem. Don’t know if this pertains to your situation, but if other things don’t fix it this isn’t a hard task.

Bar oil tank filters as well as gas tank filters are replaceable and cheap too. I just replace them infrequently but I ALWAYS take my paintbrush I carry in my pocket at all times when cutting anywhere and brush the swarf from around the filler caps prior to unscrewing them, always. That mostly eliminates any 'junk falling in the trunk' or in this case, the fuel and oil tanks. I buy the applicable Stens filters, I have a commercial account there but anyone can buy them online. Stens has a lot of saw parts at reasonable prices I might add. Lawnmower parts too, Even snowmachine parts. Not that I own any now. I got over that stupid and dangerous hobby long ago. Know a lot of people who mixed alcohol with snowmobiling and wiped out, usually with a tree and now have various stainless parts holding them together or made a trip to the funeral home and are now planted. Don't know what is worse, motorcycles or snow machines. Still have the bikes, 3 of them but I need to sell them off and forget about them, like I did the snow machines.

 

[cutter44752]

I bet you are not getting everything out of the bar groove if you're actually cleaning it out! I get ahold of bars on chainsaws that I buy, that I am positive that nobody ever scraped the crap out of it like it needs to be done! And that stuff gets packed in the bottom of the groove so hard that I have to get medieval with it to get it to break loose! A hack saw blade works pretty well if you run it through it a couple of times like you really mean it! And once you get it all cleaned out, make a habit of pulling the bar off the saw every two tanks of fuel and flip it 180 degrees and run your hack saw blade through the groove in the bar so it doesn't build up until you have an issue with it. Think about it like this, that is how the bar oil gets distributed to all the links in the chain is that groove in the bar! So if I were to see smoke coming from the bar and chain areas that would be the first place I would take a peek at and eliminate that as a culprit of your smoke! I think you will find that to be the problem nine times out of ten for an oiling issue.

Thanks, I have one of those little stamped metal pieces which are designed to clean out bars so I think I am doing ok on that front (I think I need to unclog the oiler hole.)

 

[Sidecarflip]

Good. What I use mostly as well....

 

[blades]

when using the gauge that most grinders come with for the depth gauges ( some call them rakers on the chain) make sure it is not contacting anything below the edge of the guide bar on the grinder. there are a lot of them out there shipped with the grinders ( includes oregon ) that are too deep when placed on top of chain to get a proper reading. shows up the most with low profile , pico and the tiny .043 driver chains. A ton and a half of info from Sidecar flip, Me, I am similar to sidecar- commercial sharpening/ machine shop. but It's just Me, Myself and I and sometimes we don't get along

 

[blades]

If you have some diesel fuel around you could pour some that in the oil tank and slosh it around real good the empty it back out and see how your oil flow is ( old trick to clean oil filter a bit).

 

[cutter44752]

If you have some diesel fuel around you could pour some that in the oil tank and slosh it around real good the empty it back out and see how your oil flow is ( old trick to clean oil filter a bit).

I don't but would a little bit of regular gasoline be ok for that?

 

[Sidecarflip]

when using the gauge that most grinders come with for the depth gauges ( some call them rakers on the chain) make sure it is not contacting anything below the edge of the guide bar on the grinder. there are a lot of them out there shipped with the grinders ( includes oregon ) that are too deep when placed on top of chain to get a proper reading. shows up the most with low profile , pico and the tiny .043 driver chains. A ton and a half of info from Sidecar flip, Me, I am similar to sidecar- commercial sharpening/ machine shop. but It's just Me, Myself and I and sometimes we don't get along

Least you don't have 2 full time employees to deal with as far as income tax and workers comp as well. I pay my guys really well for their knowledge and expertise and benefits as well, and I really don't even have to be present, they already know what to do, usually better than I do. Good older guys with a good work ethic, which is sadly lacking today. Again, I do all the knives and anvils and the saw chains. Keeps me outta their hair as well. I do 90% of the plasma table work as well, unless I need help loading heavy sheets of steel with the hi-lo. I have an overhead crane with a mag lifter attached but a h-lo is really easier. I full mill sheet of 1/2" or better steel is pretty ungainly hanging from the hoist on the mag lifter.

Have errands to run today so I won't be in the shop at all today which is a non issue for me anyway. They know what do to without me supervising them at all. Been with me for at least 10 years now.

Bad enough I have to deal with my wife of 37 years. 37 years of martial bliss....lol

 

[Sidecarflip]

I don't but would a little bit of regular gasoline be ok for that?

Not good, so long as you don't smoke that is or have any open flames present that is and old gas is hard to dispose of anyway. I guess you could kill some weeds with it...

 

[blades]

Was a time eons ago where I had a bunch guys out on road servicing equipment, not my shop but I was service manager and head service guy also, just plain burned out. Marriage lasted 27 years , then got blind sided and axed. Put my shop together in 93. Axe fell in 2000 all I had left after that was the shop. Once burned - never again. Took awhile to get back on my feet, have a nice home with 3 acres out in the sticks and every thing is paid for. Only person that ******* at me is the guy in the mirror.

Never gas, too dangerous to use as a cleaning agent on/for anything. off hand don't know what else as got to be a bit careful so the cleaning agent doesn't attack the plastics.

 

[scottr]

I don't but would a little bit of regular gasoline be ok for that?

Kerosene would be good to use .

 

[Sidecarflip]

Was a time eons ago where I had a bunch guys out on road servicing equipment, not my shop but I was service manager and head service guy also, just plain burned out. Marriage lasted 27 years , then got blind sided and axed. Put my shop together in 93. Axe fell in 2000 all I had left after that was the shop. Once burned - never again. Took awhile to get back on my feet, have a nice home with 3 acres out in the sticks and every thing is paid for. Only person that ******* at me is the guy in the mirror.

I'm the same way actually but no late divorices and my wife does way better financially than I do, all my money is tied up in farm equipment and shop tools. We live at the end of a dirt road and no neighbors for a 1/2 mile either way and we own all the ground in between as well and out back as well, 55 acres just in the back. I don't like neighbors as a rule, Couple big barns full of farm equipment, 3 car garage full of vehicles and the shop as well. If I liquadated everything, we could could move to the Bahama's forever but I like it just where we are and so does my wife. Firm believers in flyover country. Dislike the winters but being a farmer as well, winter gives the land a good rest every year. Good rest equals good crops,

 

[rtrsam]

That chain has taken an absolute hammering! Needs about 2mm filed off it & the rakers taken down to bring it back to serviceable. Bar will need dressing too.
Probably not a bad idea to flush the oil tank out & check that the oil pickup isn't clogged. If it's cold you might want to consider running a winter grade bar oil

This right here. Doesn't matter what else you do to the saw, until the chain is properly sharpened which includes rakers being filed to the correct depth) nothing else is going to do you any good. Lack of oil did not cause your chain to get dull like that, sawing into something other than clean wood did.

It's like rolling into a gas station on 4 flat tires and they come out and clean your windshield.

 

[Sidecarflip]

This right here. Doesn't matter what else you do to the saw, until the chain is properly sharpened which includes rakers being filed to the correct depth) nothing else is going to do you any good. Lack of oil did not cause your chain to get dull like that, sawing into something other than clean wood did.

It's like rolling into a gas station on 4 flat tires and they come out and clean your windshield.

I like your analogy.......