Great Feller
ArboristSite Lurker
If you have two or three large trees all growing up from the same stump what happens if you cut just one of them? I mean, what impact does this have on the remaining tree(s)???
two trees, same stump
- Thread starter Great Feller
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This is an extremely complicated topic. A faller I work with on occasion lost his falling partner to a double that came apart when it began to fall and crushed him. Gerry Beranek's book covers it well, much better than I EVER could. The bottom line for most of us is if you have to ask how then just leave it for a professional. If not then you had better spend a long time working through the possibilities if things don't go right.
tawilson
Addicted to ArboristSite
Are you wanting to cut the whole thing down or, as I believe, wanting to cut one branch and leave the rest?
2dogs has it right. Post some pictures of the tree and give us more information. What you'll get is about twenty five different opinions on what to do.
But...somewhere in all that conflicting advice you'll find what you need. In the mean time just leave the tree alone.
But...somewhere in all that conflicting advice you'll find what you need. In the mean time just leave the tree alone.
From my own, non cutting but forestry perspective, on a tree with multiple stems near the ground, I tend to go with cut all or none. If you plan to only cut one stem, 99% of the time, one or more of the others will get damaged.
The tree is going to have a huge wound --the stump. You'll be adding another small wound where the saw or sawhead cuts into the other stem. It is also losing part of the top, which means less leaves/needles to absorb sunlight, which means a weaker tree overall.
Now, I'm always finding where markers have only marked one stem to be cut, and I mutter a bit, but that tree will probably turn into a nice snag, which are in short supply according to some people.
Note: I'm talking about coniferous trees, not hardwoods. I don't know much about hardwoods.
Note 2: I'm not a real forester so maybe the above theory is bunk.
The tree is going to have a huge wound --the stump. You'll be adding another small wound where the saw or sawhead cuts into the other stem. It is also losing part of the top, which means less leaves/needles to absorb sunlight, which means a weaker tree overall.
Now, I'm always finding where markers have only marked one stem to be cut, and I mutter a bit, but that tree will probably turn into a nice snag, which are in short supply according to some people.
Note: I'm talking about coniferous trees, not hardwoods. I don't know much about hardwoods.
Note 2: I'm not a real forester so maybe the above theory is bunk.
hammerlogging
Addicted to ArboristSite
The fellas talking about the potential dangers are correct, but as for the tree- slowp is on track too. A huge wound at the base of the tree, entrance for rot and decay, weakening the remaining stems structurally- abiility to stay standing.
Zodiac45
Paleostoveologist & Sawwhisperer
I've got a large hatmatack (eastern larch) that's doubles about 3 feet off the ground. One side is dead the other is alive and seems ok. I'm just leaving it till the other side croaks. It's a tricky fall besides so I'm in no hurry.
PB
Addicted to ArboristSite
Hey Steve, batten down the hatches and hold on for the hurricane! Stay safe.
Great Feller
ArboristSite Lurker
Yep that's what I figured. It makes sense to cut them all or none of them. Thanks for the help....
Nailsbeats
Addicted to ArboristSite
Around here, we cut the bad stuff and leave the good stuff, no competition often makes a beautiful log. For instance if you have a double header, you'd take the crooked one off to let the straight one with good log potential get bigger/taller/straighter/faster.
Bushler
ArboristSite Operative
Not so fast, there hoss. Some species (doug. fir) tend to respond favorably to releasing one stem from a school marm. Think about it. The remaining stem gets more nutrition from the root wad, and gets MORE light.
Also to consider is the wind fall effect. School marms are two masts and sails, with one keel holding it up. In other words, school marms are ususally the first trees to blow over in severe wind.
I've cut marms for stand enhancement, with good results on fir. Hemlock not so much. White fir responds well too.
Cutting school marms is one exception I take to bore cutting.
Also to consider is the wind fall effect. School marms are two masts and sails, with one keel holding it up. In other words, school marms are ususally the first trees to blow over in severe wind.
I've cut marms for stand enhancement, with good results on fir. Hemlock not so much. White fir responds well too.
Cutting school marms is one exception I take to bore cutting.
Ivan H.
ArboristSite Member
Your right,the root systems are connected so, the other trees is probably going to die any way.The only time I would leave one would be on a pondarosa pine.From my own, non cutting but forestry perspective, on a tree with multiple stems near the ground, I tend to go with cut all or none. If you plan to only cut one stem, 99% of the time, one or more of the others will get damaged.
The tree is going to have a huge wound --the stump. You'll be adding another small wound where the saw or sawhead cuts into the other stem. It is also losing part of the top, which means less leaves/needles to absorb sunlight, which means a weaker tree overall.
Now, I'm always finding where markers have only marked one stem to be cut, and I mutter a bit, but that tree will probably turn into a nice snag, which are in short supply according to some people.
Note: I'm talking about coniferous trees, not hardwoods. I don't know much about hardwoods.
Note 2: I'm not a real forester so maybe the above theory is bunk.
Ivan H.
ArboristSite Member
would'nt it be true if you took on of the stems the other stem would be less windresistant? That's why proper thinning is so important.For instances in a stand of white fir you would remove the supressed and overstory and leave evenly aged trees in fairly closely space stands . Because in heavy winds the roots and tops would will help protect them?
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Ivan H.
ArboristSite Member
Yep, none or all
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Bushler
ArboristSite Operative
Why would the remaining stem be LESS wind resistant? Both stems are held up by one root wad. Remove half the 'sail' area reduces the tendency to blow over.
Like leaning on your 'joined at the hip' brother when you're drunk. You'll both fall down......
Like leaning on your 'joined at the hip' brother when you're drunk. You'll both fall down......
Ivan H.
ArboristSite Member
lets say you picked up one stick you would be able to break it pretty easy,but if you put two ,three sticks together they would be harder to break. Why do you think the trees grow so close together in the first place.
Ivan H.
ArboristSite Member
That depends on soil conditions too. the wetter the ground easier it is for the wind to push them over.If you've seen a school merm with the root wad still on.You'll notice that it' two trees grown together so it has a bigger root system to compensate.the fact is the wind knocks down trees when the ground is wet, wether there regular tress or school merms.
Bushler
ArboristSite Operative
I have seen lots of windfall school marms with a single root wad. The 'wad' may be elongated to compensate for the individual stems, but it's still a single wad.
Somtimes two trees will grow close togeather and resemble a marm, but are two seperate trees with two seperate root wads. Seen that too, but ususally you can see a cleft 'tween the stems that will extend to the ground, rather than a solid crotch.
I used to think school marms were cool, like a double yoker egg...but after several decades of observation I've become a fan of single stem trees, and will in fact almost always remove a stem from a white fir, or red fir marm during a thining/stand enhancement harvest.
Conversly, I ususally fall both stems if the tree is a hemlock or spruce.
Somtimes two trees will grow close togeather and resemble a marm, but are two seperate trees with two seperate root wads. Seen that too, but ususally you can see a cleft 'tween the stems that will extend to the ground, rather than a solid crotch.
I used to think school marms were cool, like a double yoker egg...but after several decades of observation I've become a fan of single stem trees, and will in fact almost always remove a stem from a white fir, or red fir marm during a thining/stand enhancement harvest.
Conversly, I ususally fall both stems if the tree is a hemlock or spruce.
Humptulips
ArboristSite Guru
You're on the right track with the hemlock and spruce. I found when we cut timber that had been thinned even a small marm knifed off a bigger tree would cause rot to start. After only 4 years we observed stain had run up hemlock as far as 16 feet.
Maybe I'm a bit confused when you speak of white fir. Aroud here it is a generic term for true firs such as noble fir and Pacific Silver fir. It rots as bad or worse then hemlock so I wouldn't remove one marm from a white fir but of course they are not prone to marms anyway, at least from what I've seen.
Maybe you are talking about Doug fir when you say white and red?
I have heard people differentiate between yellow and red fir both would be doug fir.
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