I remove a fair amount of topped trees. I do not like to tie into the sprouts. I typically anchor where the sprouts attach but I will tie into the top of a sprout from time to time. my question is, do you trust them? they cant be as strong but are they likely plenty strong? I am more concerned with the whole sprout detaching than it breaking.
tying into sprouts
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sac-climber
ArboristSite Operative
I think it really depends on the species. I would do my best to avoid it, if your really concerned put in a backup line with a shunt or similar device.
gorman
Addicted to ArboristSite
Don't basal tie.
Trust the tree.
This branch was broken by ice in 2002, and there were no laterals left so I reduced it back to buds at the first growth point, or ‘node’, behind the break.
These upright laterals sprouted after the storm, and helped compartmentalize that sapwood rot (sunscald is common on beech after sudden exposure).
When I climbed the tree in 2012, this was an easy shot with a throwline, and passed the ‘bounce test’.
While ascending, it occurred to me that the limb I was hanging 200#+ on was a 10-year old sprout. Doh!
I wasted no time tying into another branch.
This branch was broken by ice in 2002, and there were no laterals left so I reduced it back to buds at the first growth point, or ‘node’, behind the break.
These upright laterals sprouted after the storm, and helped compartmentalize that sapwood rot (sunscald is common on beech after sudden exposure).
When I climbed the tree in 2012, this was an easy shot with a throwline, and passed the ‘bounce test’.
While ascending, it occurred to me that the limb I was hanging 200#+ on was a 10-year old sprout. Doh!
I wasted no time tying into another branch.
sac-climber
ArboristSite Operative
The old "Oh **** do I keep going so I can advance the TIP or go down and do it all over again." We have a lot of oaks around my part that are an absolute ***** to set a line in so usually I opt for the keep on climbing.
If you look at a cross section cut comparison between a sprout and a branch you can see how the branch is anchored deeply in the wood as the tree is growing outward. A sprout is growing from advantages buds, not having much more anchoring then the cambium for some time. Much weeker attachment point than a branch. Then there is the decay from the old top cut or broken section. I don't trust them with my life.
Jed, sprouts often grow from dormant buds, not adventitious buds. They are anchored to the core by compacted xylem and pith trails, as Shigo pointed out. Those beech sprouts might have held my 200# after only 5 years.
Sorry got my buds mixed up. I seem to remember some of Shigo's cross section comparisons between sprouts at topping cut versus natural branch growth with much less core anchorage with the sprouts. Time to open up modern arbor culture or new tree bio and check it out. I will try to get a page number for reference. Regardless, with the amount of decay usually associated with topping cuts or top breakage I would not trust sprouts to put my line over.
The decay is the issue. I used the sprout today. It was thigh sized and about 15' tall. I felt that srt was the way. Even though it doubled the weight, it also stabilized it. When i stood on top of the old cuts it was mush. I am going to do a cut away of the sprout i was in. Thing is, you just dont know which sprout is near failure from decay. Normally i just spike my way around tied into the where the old cuts were. This particular tree required a higher tie in. The cable, phone and service line were routed through so i needed to be able to piece some sprouts down. I will check back with a photo of the cut away.
Page 469 of new tree bio shows a cross section cut of a topped ash with a sprout coming out. Yes attached to the xylem(cambium/phloem) but nothing else. Quickest reference I could find. At the very least, thanks for getting me to dust off the Shigo treeseer!
I dont go around removing topped trees like a pro bono super hero. I get hired to remove the tree. It being topped is irrelevent in the home owners eyes. A tree is a tree to them and they want it gone.Why not prune to restore these topped trees? Much more satisfying, environmentally and financially.
Are you saying deny the removal?
sac-climber
ArboristSite Operative
We quit doing removals of anything but some hazard trees, invasive, and nuisance species a while ago. I'd rather sell a pruning job than a removal any day, from both an ethical and profitability standpoint. Smaller trucks, smaller chippers, smaller crews, and more billable hours....a winning proposition.
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