U.S. Proposes New Forest Management Plan
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deeker
Tree Freak
Thanks for the post.
I do disagree with the animal rights nutjobs protecting some spotted glob of snot, as in a spotted snail.
And yes I whole heartedly disagree with any "global warming/climate change" garbage.
But we do need to harvest trees before they become beetle food or or multi billion dollar man killing fires.
The commonsense of those that actually work in the industry vs the stupidity of the high points hired HNIC. We at least EARN our pay.
Hmmm...retirement is looking better all the time. You guys that still have a lot of years left are going to be seeing a lot of changes. I hope that some of them are for the better.
deeker
Tree Freak
You make a lot of very good points in just three sentences.
Wish the "government" could do that.
Or the "government" needs to be reduced by IQ testing and commonsense.
Thanks, Deek, but I hope you realize that you and I, and most people who depend on logging for a living, are in the minority. A tiny minority at that. A tiny enough minority that our opinion seldom matters to the people who make the rules.
Hey, maybe we can apply for some kind of formal Minority Status...hell, we're already an endangered species.
paccity
Addicted to ArboristSite
ya, got to protect the manbearpig.
When you do speak up, try not to call people bad names. It closes the ears down right away.
The FS is hurting for folks who know how to get timber out, and I don't have hopes for anything getting better. They gutted the timber program with the purge (called downsizing, reorganizing, change, etc.) of the 1990s and the few left are of retirement age. Seven weeks to go.....
The FS is hurting for folks who know how to get timber out, and I don't have hopes for anything getting better. They gutted the timber program with the purge (called downsizing, reorganizing, change, etc.) of the 1990s and the few left are of retirement age. Seven weeks to go.....
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dingeryote
Blueberry Baron
Patty,
Any chance you can get on with a timber company as a project consultant?
If things get dodgy with the new foresters and compliance issues, having a knowledgeable gal on staff that can point out viable tweaks to remain compliant and smooth things out, would be invaluable.
Of course that would mean lots of meetings about planning meetings, redundant E-mail, and sharing company with vile Creatures that wear shiney shoes, but it might be better than opening up a pie and muffin shop.
Stay safe!
Dingeryote
Any chance you can get on with a timber company as a project consultant?
If things get dodgy with the new foresters and compliance issues, having a knowledgeable gal on staff that can point out viable tweaks to remain compliant and smooth things out, would be invaluable.
Of course that would mean lots of meetings about planning meetings, redundant E-mail, and sharing company with vile Creatures that wear shiney shoes, but it might be better than opening up a pie and muffin shop.
Stay safe!
Dingeryote
paccity
Addicted to ArboristSite
slowp, if you were ref my little joke it was al gore joke off of southpark. no insult to any one here.:msp_smile:
There's a lot wrong with that article. For example:
Every state has its own regulations regarding such things. It wouldn't make a bit of sense to apply stream-typing rules that describe minor drainages in eastern Oregon to a bayou in Louisiana. That a Federal plan would leave room for the states to be able to regulate their own natural resource laws makes good sense.
Meanwhile, the actual plan says this (my emphasis):
So, the article, as written, is patently wrong. Did the author read the entire plan? I doubt it. At the same time, Washington State law clearly outlines what needs protection, and how much. Every state has similar rules.
The moral of the story: stupid New York Times columnists should do their research before publishing flawed articles.
Every state has its own regulations regarding such things. It wouldn't make a bit of sense to apply stream-typing rules that describe minor drainages in eastern Oregon to a bayou in Louisiana. That a Federal plan would leave room for the states to be able to regulate their own natural resource laws makes good sense.
Meanwhile, the actual plan says this (my emphasis):
So, the article, as written, is patently wrong. Did the author read the entire plan? I doubt it. At the same time, Washington State law clearly outlines what needs protection, and how much. Every state has similar rules.
The moral of the story: stupid New York Times columnists should do their research before publishing flawed articles.
Wasn't meaning you for that. Sorry...
NO on Working...I want to recreate in the summer, for a change. My toes are shot, and a knee is threatening. Then I want to ski in the winter. Plus I plan to be an obnoxious woodcutter. I'll join the ones that get the good wood because they can cut on weekdays. :hmm3grin2orange:
I have thought about setting out a card table in front of a store with a petition to REPEAL THE NORTHWEST FOREST PLAN, but that would interfere with summertime recreating.
As far as stream buffering and such goes? We'll still have the same biologists and planning teams, who buffer the buffers, and then want to buffer the buffer of the buffer.
If only things could be made simpler.
Ain't that the truth. Where I work, the water bodies aren't half as much trouble as the western grey squirrel. It's getting to where it takes basically a baptism by fire to get the State 'ologists to buy off on a sale in an area where squirrels *could* be, and they keep releasing new ones every year, and they don't always tell us where they are in advance.
Please tell me I read that wrong. The State is releasing squirrels? As in...growing them in captivity and then turning them loose?
8433jeff
Aftermarket connoisseur
Why isn't that hard to believe. Please, tell me if its true or not. Maybe they figure that baby squirrels get ate by spotted owls.
You didn't read that wrong at all. Washington State Department of Fish & Wildlife have a Western Grey Squirrel program. In fact, the principal author of the article I cited there works out of our office two days a week and has her computer in the corner where I keep my collection of tree disease samples!
EDIT: These guys are the state folks I deal with the most. The lot of them are very professional, even when it feels like they're trying to keep me from doing my job. Right now one of my sales is being cut which took a major coordination effort to get the green light to go ahead; it looks very much exactly the way it was planned to, and I think it as well as a few others will smooth the way forward as we convince the necessary entities that we're not trying to undo their work.
EDIT: These guys are the state folks I deal with the most. The lot of them are very professional, even when it feels like they're trying to keep me from doing my job. Right now one of my sales is being cut which took a major coordination effort to get the green light to go ahead; it looks very much exactly the way it was planned to, and I think it as well as a few others will smooth the way forward as we convince the necessary entities that we're not trying to undo their work.
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8433jeff
Aftermarket connoisseur
So they will be fine if we get rid of the other squirrels, shoot all the turkeys, and put in squirrel crossings over/under roadways. I want the job teaching them how to use the squirrel hopwalks. Gray squirrel is kinda tasty BTW.
Second article, figure 3: follow the red line to its southernmost terminus. That's one of my current sales. I'll be presenting to the F&W folks soon regarding my harvest plan. I was supposed to do it Thursday, but they canceled. I won't get to begin marking without their OK. I have the PowerPoint done already. Politics.
Note: I intend to remove ~1 mmbf over ~300 acres, co-incident with sales in two surrounding areas, with the prescription designed to preserve natural stand structure across sale boundaries. The prescription is written, and one sale is already marked using the method I devised. It is adapted from several I have used before, and is intended to give every tree in the stand an equal chance of being removed given prescription rules. The long-term goal is uneven-aged late-successional stand structure, and a ~15% harvest every 15 or so years. We can do this with minimal impact on our soils due to their glacial origins, so this method wouldn't likely work well in other places.
Note: I intend to remove ~1 mmbf over ~300 acres, co-incident with sales in two surrounding areas, with the prescription designed to preserve natural stand structure across sale boundaries. The prescription is written, and one sale is already marked using the method I devised. It is adapted from several I have used before, and is intended to give every tree in the stand an equal chance of being removed given prescription rules. The long-term goal is uneven-aged late-successional stand structure, and a ~15% harvest every 15 or so years. We can do this with minimal impact on our soils due to their glacial origins, so this method wouldn't likely work well in other places.
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Well, now I feel a lot better about our goofy California Condor program. Well, no, actually I don't. It's still goofy. And expensive. And not terribly successful.
I guess we're lucky that dinosaurs no longer walk the Earth. Some well meaning bunch of 'ologists would be out there growing T-Rex.
Squirrels...who'da thunk it. Next time there's a choir practice down at the saw shop I'm gonna have to pass that story along.
I guess we're lucky that dinosaurs no longer walk the Earth. Some well meaning bunch of 'ologists would be out there growing T-Rex.
Squirrels...who'da thunk it. Next time there's a choir practice down at the saw shop I'm gonna have to pass that story along.
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If it wasn't squirrels it would be something else. The preservationists have finally realized that the way to eliminate as much logging as possible is to go to work for a Federal or State agency and attack from within. It's working, too.
Kinda makes me miss the old hippy protest days. The hippies would stand up for what they felt was right and take you on face to face. I didn't agree with their goals but I respected their courage and willingness to take a beating for what they believed in.
I don't think your average 'ologist would have the balls to chain themselves to a yarder or live in a redwood tree. They'd rather use court injunctions and an ever increasing complexity of rules to strangle us. It's working, too.
Kinda makes me miss the old hippy protest days. The hippies would stand up for what they felt was right and take you on face to face. I didn't agree with their goals but I respected their courage and willingness to take a beating for what they believed in.
I don't think your average 'ologist would have the balls to chain themselves to a yarder or live in a redwood tree. They'd rather use court injunctions and an ever increasing complexity of rules to strangle us. It's working, too.
