Underbidding

[treemandan]

goodness gracious, this thread belongs in the petty forum

Did the guys have a good week of getting crushed by the chuck and duck? BAAHAA!. Take it easy, I thought they were cool to, and they are, they certainly are.
Anyway this little bicker between blake and ixt is really not petty, in fact it can be taken as the root of the proposed problem, which is -WHY IS AALLHS US GETTIN BEAT OUT BY DA NEW GUY?!
Listen, I got to be honest. Who needs another tree guy? I don't think the public really does and, are reluctant to spend. They want cheap cause cheap is cool and not to steep but best of all cheap is cheap. Few and far are those who pay with honest appreciation, unless they know it the best price.
But then it seems Mr Blakesmaster has such a lovely and wonderful little oppurtunity- don't it? By the way, sir, I would definatly talk to the guy who learned me before I set up shop in his world, you better believe that! Unless we are talking about a prick.
I guess I grew into my business, which is nothing more than me and some contract labor for my work and some work I do for other companies. Often I bid against others I know, actually everyday, aside from the clients I have allready won. Stay in long enough to win enough clients,and be able to keep them; well there you go.
It is going to be tough with so much new competition, the economy, and the fact that you had better be spectacular; if they can get the lawn boys to hack it they will. You hound the rich like Bartlett? You might get somewhere. Anyone else ain't got the time and sure as hell don't want to spend a dime.
I ran the ads for the year to see what was out there and wanted the equipment. I wanted it in my lot! This was after 17 years of working for every YOUR NAME HERE Tree Service. Only thing they served was the name on the truck. After the year of ads i didn't want to see what was out there, I wanted it to stop calling me.
One thing for sure, no matter how cool you are, you are going to have to to slick and you are going to have to be sneaky. After all, its a MASTERPLAN. Good luck and yeefnhaa.
So, Ixt you got much validity with your vast skill and longevity but you do know the oppositions are allowed. Personally, I am sick of bidding against you. I am sick of looking like another Tree Capitist Pig to the eyes of the next person who gets my number out off the yellow pages. " Sure the guy before me could do it for half but he is in jail right now".
These newer business's with their claims of having a "different approach" must be talking bout sombtin I don't get.The recipe for sucess does vary in this business, as with all, but I could list a few and we would all flinch and bow our heads. If you don't think so, that is probably why I quit.
Before I bought the chipper and trucks I tried to buy out the welder shop down in town. I even offered an apprentice deal, it wasn't for the money, just for the assetts at the time.He had allready made a deal with the head shop next door, cylinder head shop. he worked there alone.
I figured I could always get work, well, cause I can and it would be a good long term investment. My business is just a cash flow stragtegy that sustains a level of income, for me! Legal is good; right? Whatever. Never has there really ever been no lettuce in my check salad under the employ of Joe Schmo Tree Care. Brutal bastards and dangerous to boot some can be.
Who is the nice tree guy around here? Who here has a 100% legit history of fine arboricultural integrity? Who can pay me enough so I can pay my mortgage? Hey, what do you think fits the bill?
What those guys were talking about with the ' Brotherhood' thread in the business forum seems to be a nice idea but what it really comes down to is a viable means to put legit cash on the table.
One thing for sure, I operate with clear conscience for the fact that what I know about my trade I learned by myself for myself and never would I set up dojo in my sensay's village, that is if i had i sensay, sure could use one now. For crying out loud these tree guys have thier signs up everywhere!

 

[lxt]

So, Ixt you got much validity with your vast skill and longevity but you do know the oppositions are allowed. Personally, I am sick of bidding against you. I am sick of looking like another Tree Capitist Pig to the eyes of the next person who gets my number out off the yellow pages. " Sure the guy before me could do it for half but he is in jail right now".

For crying out loud these tree guys have thier signs up everywhere!

Validity??? Vast skill & longevity???? this I guess would depend on who you talk to, I just do the best I can!!

Sick of bidding against me??? I doubt you do! unless you`re bidding in the beaver county area, If so I am bidding against you, after all I live there!!



LXT................

 

[Nailsbeats]

Funny, my buddy Nitro always tells me, "you're a stupid, stupid man." I must be a hybrid. lol

 

[treemandan]

Validity??? Vast skill & longevity???? this I guess would depend on who you talk to, I just do the best I can!!

Sick of bidding against me??? I doubt you do! unless you`re bidding in the beaver county area, If so I am bidding against you, after all I live there!!



LXT................

Yeah, sure, validity. 30 odd years either working or running your own. I bid against guys like you as a new company. My business plan might not be as stringent as some but I am realistic. I try hard not to come off like a new guy saying he is cheaper and better or bashing other guys, even when they deserve it.
I have not been in Beaver co since I was like 17, over 20 years ago but your area is much like mine with a lot of new hotshots who WILL go cheap on the stuff that ain't.
I have worked with lots of older guys who had thier name on the truck, some who scary and some were guys who had been in biz a long time to develope what they needed. All had the same problems, which of course is evident, but their competition came from their employees.
To this day I still cannot figure out how one man can run a tree company. i guess there was a reason why his guys started their own little gigs. I am speaking in general when I say his.

 

[HolmenTree]

:jester:

And my groundie [ my only employee ] wants me to buy him a $650 Arbor Master Training climbing skills course. Not.

 

[highclimber47]

lOW BIDS

The bitterness of poor quality work lasts longer than the sweetness of cheap work......

Maybe try to follow up on the bids you lost to the low ballers, and see if this rings true. Maybe you could turn a lost customer into a client after the fact.

 

[KiwiTreeSteve]

Now its 10 years a far cry from 30, If I counted going out with dad....hell Id have a ton more time to add to my bio. too.

you chose door #2 because it paid the bills......then stick with that nothing wrong with being an architect (sounds important) you gave up on tree work & now find the need to infiltrate the field pickin & choosing (no doubt easy stuff) while leaving others & myself with all the nice ones!!! cause I highly doubt you & your boys are doing many big ones with your 3 days of tree time.

Look, I love my job & my biz, I have mustered through the good & bad times... thats dedication, perserverance & belief that I can make it, Now I gotta compete with new startups & tree dropouts......master one trade & leave the others to those who love & wish to master them!!

If architect was your choice to pay the bills & it provides well for you, why the need to do something you gave up on? It didnt make you money then....trust me it wont make you money now, too many like you doing the same thing. jmho

LXT............

Respect!

 

[CLEARVIEW TREE]

Plain and simply put, there's plenty of work out there for everyone! We just gotta be sportsmanlike stewards of our trade ya know.opcorn:

 

[tree MDS]

Ahh, back to lowballers- heres one: I get a call from a landscaper friend of mine, he wants me to look at a massive red oak in his front yard, over primary lines and with service and phone lines going into the house, beutiful tree, the acorns bother him so he wants it cut down, there is a smaller red maple he wants cut too. wood stays cut, oak is probably about 48-50" diameter, I just screwed up a bid on one for 1200, wood stays, chips stay, still took me 10 hours, so even though he gets me a little work I told him 3000 dollars for the oak and 600 for the maple-then I did'nt hear back and I thought, maybe too high so I call and leave a message to call me basically saying I think I can do better and dont hear back. Friday I hear from another friend that he had it done (the oak anyway far as I know) for 1500by this a$$@#$# with a 25 ton crane, a gaint storm chaser log truck thingy, 75' highranger, track machine with grapple, 18 or 20" morbark, 300 horse international dump, carlton track chipper 80 horse, fancy 50k pickup and more!! Now c'mon !! What a loser, this isnt the first time, hes allways half price! I cant figure this loser out, talk about underbiding!! Guy sucks too, kind of like a nosak deal, no licence, a real tough guy, I hear he shoots himself in the ass with roids too, lol. Any of you guys want this gem?? ya can have him!!... Oh, and all that stuffs pretty new too,like within 3 years , nice competion eh??

 

[hornett224]

sounds like he makes less on each job ...........

but has more jobs. gotta buy them roids.

 

[tree MDS]

but has more jobs. gotta buy them roids.

Yeah, amongst other things, lol.

 

[Blakesmaster]

All right guys. I went to bid a job last night; huge willow, 6 ft dbh, 8/9 two and a half foot leads, 100 yard uphill drag for brush and wood, but it was a simple climb and cut, barely any roping. Mostly grunt work. I give my price, a very reasonable one and the guy says someone already gave him a quote that was half of that. I smiled, said, "make sure they're insured" and hit the road. I still can't believe anyone would bid it that low. Granted, it was a b***h of a job that I didn't really want but I still felt my price was more than fair and now that I've been underbid I kinda feel your pain.

 

[CLEARVIEW TREE]

Ahh, back to lowballers- heres one: I get a call from a landscaper friend of mine, he wants me to look at a massive red oak in his front yard, over primary lines and with service and phone lines going into the house, beutiful tree, the acorns bother him so he wants it cut down, there is a smaller red maple he wants cut too. wood stays cut, oak is probably about 48-50" diameter, I just screwed up a bid on one for 1200, wood stays, chips stay, still took me 10 hours, so even though he gets me a little work I told him 3000 dollars for the oak and 600 for the maple-then I did'nt hear back and I thought, maybe too high so I call and leave a message to call me basically saying I think I can do better and dont hear back. Friday I hear from another friend that he had it done (the oak anyway far as I know) for 1500by this a$$@#$# with a 25 ton crane, a gaint storm chaser log truck thingy, 75' highranger, track machine with grapple, 18 or 20" morbark, 300 horse international dump, carlton track chipper 80 horse, fancy 50k pickup and more!! Now c'mon !! What a loser, this isnt the first time, hes allways half price! I cant figure this loser out, talk about underbiding!! Guy sucks too, kind of like a nosak deal, no licence, a real tough guy, I hear he shoots himself in the ass with roids too, lol. Any of you guys want this gem?? ya can have him!!... Oh, and all that stuffs pretty new too,like within 3 years , nice competion eh??

That guy will not be in biz long! If he's cuttin his own throat by doin free work, how can he pay for it all? He is not going to pay it off that way anytime soon! Make s me wish that tree prices were similar to auto repair at the dealership! Charge an honest, large flat rate, hope for the best and get it done in half the time allowed and still get payed for the projected full proposed time! Now that would be sweet!:monkey:

 

[Slvrmple72]

Bid a Pin Oak behind the house, over the power, over the garage, with a tight drop zone, 32" DBH, 4 leads, all rigging, stump ground, chips cleared for 1125. Homeowner says local outfit bid 875 and wanted to know if I would match or even lower my price! I said I would do it for 1075 but would leave the chips from the stump grinding! I hate shoveling out chips from a stump hole! Homeowners never realize what they are in for and I when I itemize the prices for a job they don't want to pay to have the hole cleaned out. Then they whine and insist that I clean up the mess. Sorry, that'll be extra!

 

[TDunk]

Knock on wood i haven't had to many probs. this year with people underbidding me. I've had a couple H.O.'s ask me if i could do it any cheaper/or what i could not do to make it cheaper. But so far it's been a decent year for this part-time "super trimmer". I do have to get something off my chest though. When i started this thread i was pi$$ed. I haven't been doing tree work that long (trying to make a good name for myself) and when i heard that another local "part-timer" had been running his mouth about me i lost it and started this thread. After i cooled down i called him and told him what i heard....... blah blah blah. Had a nice conversation. Well it turns out he wasn't the one that was doing the underbidding. I hate small town B.S.

 

[nytreeman]

I get low balled at times,but I admit sometimes if I know the person has had a lot of bids I will just ask whats the best and if I can do it cheaper I'll price it that way if not I just tell them I can't beat it,like I tell them I'm not the most expensive but I'm not the cheapest either I have to make money but try to be fair and I do good work,but it's really amazing how low some will go to get work,then do a crappy half azz job because there not making anything,the way I look at it is if you know going out to do jobs that your going to lose money on day after day, why bother??