Used a coos bay in a tree today

[John Ellison]

I can't say that I have used it a lot, but I have fell a couple of big spruce using a similar cut to what Murf is talking about.
There was a rock bluff in the unit that was steep enough that it was impossible to keep anything in place( for bucking). It all ended up in a big pile at the bottom, 400'+ below. The bullbuck told my partner and I to just dump it all straight down. O Boy!!! A tree would leave the stump and you had time to scratch yourself out of the way, shut your saw off and listen a bit before the crash silence crash, etc. Surprisingly they saved out a lot better that you would think with most breaking clean at around the top 1/4.

The reason I used this method was to save time and to reduce the pucker factor. They were 4 to 5' spruce that were out on tiny rock points. You could just barely get yourself to the tree and had only a small space on the backside to stand. To work on the sides or the front (downhill side) would have taken several springboards and would have put you on the board over a shear dropoff of a lot more than I wanted.

I was not sure how to handle it so after a bunkhouse B.S. session this sounded the best to me. These trees both had a gentle forward lean, straight down the mtn. I made the single cut on each side, like Murf described, but did not cut all the way out the front. The tree was supported on a T of uncut wood, Probably 6 or 8" in front and 2 or 3 in the middle. When I cut the strip the trees would tip to around 45 deg. and then the butt would rip off the front of the stump.

It worked perfect for me in that situation but I dont think I would use it otherwise other wise for falling. With no undercut and no real hinge there is just a general directional control. I think it does kill any barberchair possibility, but I would rather use other methods for heavy leaners.

 

[LTREES]

I can't say that I have used it a lot, but I have fell a couple of big spruce using a similar cut to what Murf is talking about.
There was a rock bluff in the unit that was steep enough that it was impossible to keep anything in place( for bucking). It all ended up in a big pile at the bottom, 400'+ below. The bullbuck told my partner and I to just dump it all straight down. O Boy!!! A tree would leave the stump and you had time to scratch yourself out of the way, shut your saw off and listen a bit before the crash silence crash, etc. Surprisingly they saved out a lot better that you would think with most breaking clean at around the top 1/4.

The reason I used this method was to save time and to reduce the pucker factor. They were 4 to 5' spruce that were out on tiny rock points. You could just barely get yourself to the tree and had only a small space on the backside to stand. To work on the sides or the front (downhill side) would have taken several springboards and would have put you on the board over a shear dropoff of a lot more than I wanted.

I was not sure how to handle it so after a bunkhouse B.S. session this sounded the best to me. These trees both had a gentle forward lean, straight down the mtn. I made the single cut on each side, like Murf described, but did not cut all the way out the front. The tree was supported on a T of uncut wood, Probably 6 or 8" in front and 2 or 3 in the middle. When I cut the strip the trees would tip to around 45 deg. and then the butt would rip off the front of the stump.

It worked perfect for me in that situation but I dont think I would use it otherwise other wise for falling. With no undercut and no real hinge there is just a general directional control. I think it does kill any barberchair possibility, but I would rather use other methods for heavy leaners.

A video would have been nice, did you ever think of us here at A.S.

 

[John Ellison]

That was pre AS. In the 80s

 

[rmihalek]

With the Coos cut, I think I'd at least want to cut into the front of the leaner a little bit, maybe a half inch or so, just in case the holding wood decides to strip down the stem and grab my lanyard.

 

[randyg]

With the Coos cut, I think I'd at least want to cut into the front of the leaner a little bit, maybe a half inch or so, just in case the holding wood decides to strip down the stem and grab my lanyard.

I'm with you on the undercut first. I'm thinkin 3 or 4 inches below and then you can make that undercut deeper like 1/4 the dia. rather than just a half inch. Should not affect Coos cut, just a safety against peel. Speed is one thing, but how does the saying go? A stitch in time saves nine, or is it the ounce of prevention worth a pound of cure? Yup, thats it!!!!

 

[GASoline71]

There are some variations to the Coos Bay cut... one with a face and one without...

FFS relax...

Gary

 

[pdqdl]

pdq .. this thread is trying my patience...

your statement in particular "This sure sounds you are making this tougher than necessary. Same results, less work, greater security on a head leaner: use a modified "pop cut":

Any suggestiion that a modified pop cut is simpler, easier, or stands less of a chance to barber chair than the coos bay is complete ignorance...

IGNORANCE

The only benefit of setting a hinge with an undercut is to prevent twisting... When you are in a tree with a wide open DZ you cut the coos bay perfectly in line with the lean of the top... It doesn't get any simpler or easier than that!

I try to share this little gem with the people here and have to explain and re-explain and re-explain some more... It has gotten old...

And I do think it is good to make a distinction between hinge wood and holding wood, which have come to be used interchangably... In the cace of the coos bay the holding wood is not hinging...

I'm not trying to wear out your patience, as I appreciate anyone's suggestion of other techniques. That's what this forum is all about. Your response to me suggests that you believe you are doing us all a favor, and that you should not be expected to listen to anyone else's opinion. I'm sorry; I don't see it that way.

Regarding ignorance on my part for my suggestion: take a vote, and see how many experienced cutters that have ever used that method think the suggestion is ignorant.

I would like to remind you that you stated in your original post that you DID NOT have an empty drop zone: "but there were a couple other trees nearby and it would have fallen into some of their upper limbs causing minor damage most likely. " so you did not have "a tree with a wide open DZ " as you stated above.

You stated "The only benefit of setting a hinge with an undercut is to prevent twisting... " No. I can control how far the top leans before it breaks loose. That is a definite benefit. When the gap closes completely, the tree goes nowhere until all holding wood is broken loose. You can't say that about the Coos Bay cut, it will hold all the way down the cut until it finally breaks all the remaining wood at some unpredictable point.

Read my post more carefully, I said NOTHING about using a hinge in the cut. A NARROW opening on the face, only enough to let the tree lean out enough to not fall on you as it goes down, or wider if you preferred. Your goal was to send the top down quickly without toppling over, right? My suggestion will give you a butt first drop, at the angle you set with the width of your face cut.

I will defy anyone on this site to produce a barber chair in the tree of their preference using the method I described. Barber chair occurs when there is a strong lateral force (heavy lean, wind, tow line, etc) applying a tension force away from the stump. The barber chair occurs when the tension force exceeds the compression force by enough difference to split the trunk while it remains attached to the stump by the wood under compression. Typically, this only occurs when the compression wood is closest to the side under compression. The probabilty of barber chair increases when the distance between "tension" and "compression" is the greatest (as in shallow face cuts) and it is reduced as the face cut comes closer to the center of the tree. Barber chair is almost impossible to create when the face cut exceeds 50% of the trunk diameter; easily and safely done with a head leaner.

Barber chair cannot be done when the compression force is entirely placed on wood that has already been cut loose from the tree. [face cut with a closed gap, 50% or more trunk diameter cut]. When the tension force exceeds the strength of the holding wood, it pops loose, and goes in the direction of the strong lateral force. EVERY TIME.

Coos Bay does not prevent barber chair, it just makes it less likely. It does not increase control of the placement, direction, nor timing of the fall, it only minimizes damage to the trunk that was cut off. There is still wood under tension, and attached wood under compression, which breaks as the tree falls away from the stump. It's original purpose was to maximize timber production. It's use in the top of a tree is unnecessary, since there are several other methods that accomplish the same end, while still maintaining some lateral control.

If you like the coos bay, go ahead and do it that way. Send me a video, and I will be doubly pleased if I learn something new. My suggestion that seemed to inflame you was not intended as a criticism, only as another way to approach the same problem. It was offered in the same spirit as your original post, and I regret that you did not see it that way.

 

[toddstreeservic]

a picture is worth 1000 words
a (good)video is worth a million